From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 1 07:45:05 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karen McCall via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] PDF Remediator's Research Survey Message-ID: Morning! The PDF Remediator's survey is ongoing research for those in organizations, academic institutions or government agencies who remediate PDFs to be accessible for those with disabilities. This is not an attempt to solicit from large scale remediation companies! https://forms.office.com/r/4KU5cGzwFX The purpose of the research survey is to: * Provide feedback on the accessibility of the user interface of remediation software. * Provide feedback on the tools that work and those that don't in the "ease of remediation" process. * Give a voice to those creating, remediating and fixing tagged accessible PDFs. This research survey closes May 2, 2025 The raw data will be published on the Karlen Communications website, Research page. Please share the link with anyone who might be interested in participating in the research. Cheers, Karen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 2 07:21:08 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Emily Singer Lucio via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] Fwd: [MIDA] Accessibility in Industry: MIDA Panel - April 2, 4:30-6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Accessibility in Industry: MIDA Panel* *When: *Wednesday, April 2, 4:30-6 PM *Where:* Zoom Accessibility ensures everyone can effectively use digital tools, games, platforms, and resources, regardless of their abilities or circumstances. Hear from industry leaders at Microsoft, AccessForge, and Level Access as they share insights on driving accessibility innovation in the digital world. Join the Maryland Initiative for Digital Accessibility as we explore this important topic and learn ways you can contribute to making technology more usable for everyone. *Registration is required:* https://go.umd.edu/midatech Our panelists: *Angela Lean* is Microsoft?s Senior Business Program Lead for Accessible Employee Experience as well as the global co-chair of their Families Employee Resource Group. A graduate of Yale University and NYU?s Stern School of Business, she has been at Microsoft for over 14 years and previously worked at T-Mobile, J. P. Morgan Chase, and American Express. Angela also chairs NYC?s Center for Workplace Accessibility and Inclusion Advisory Council and serves as an advisor to The Huddle for Families , a non-profit dedicated to helping parents and educators advocating for kids with disabilities. She is mom to Luke (21) and Sofia(17), and lives in New York City. *Mark Barlet* is a pioneering advocate for disability inclusion and accessibility. He is the founder of AbleGamers , a nonprofit dedicated to using the power of play to combat social isolation for people with disabilities, and the co-founder of AccessForge , a consulting firm that partners with industries to create accessible experiences in gaming, travel, banking, and beyond. A service-disabled Air Force veteran, Mark brings over two decades of leadership at the intersection of technology, accessibility, and social impact. *Corbb O?Connor* is Director of Accessibility Advocacy at Level Access . A hands-down nerd, Corbb taught himself HTML, CSS, PHP, and mySQL alongside Adobe Photoshop to build a resource for webmasters in 1998. JustForWebmasters.com died a long time ago, but he?s still building. He started a B2B communications firm by mistake, kicked off U.S. Bank?s accessibility initiative, and mentored salespeople into certified accessibility testers. He was appointed by Minnesota Governor Tim Walz to a statewide council overseeing the State Services for the Blind and has twice been elected its chairman. A Chicago native, recovering journalist, amateur radio operator, and occasional cowboy, Corbb has a question for any occasion. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mida_panel_apr2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1057759 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 2 08:51:08 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] FW: [aphbrailleblaster-announce] Unannouncing BrailleBlaster 3.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: aphbrailleblaster-announce-bounce@freelists.org On Behalf Of Michael Whapples Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2025 8:47 AM To: aphbrailleblaster@freelists.org; aphbrailleblaster-announce@freelists.org Subject: [aphbrailleblaster-announce] Unannouncing BrailleBlaster 3.0 You read that subject correct, an unannouncement. It has come to our attention that BrailleBlaster 3.0 has critical bugs in the math support. For this reason APH for now has reverted the website to offer you the previous BrailleBlaster 2.1.9 release. A fix is in the works, but due to some maintenance on the build server, APH is currently unable to produce a signed updated release with the fix. We will notify you when there is an update. For anyone who has already obtained BrailleBlaster 3.0, if you never will use the math feature or open a file containing math, then you may wish to keep with your install of BrailleBlaster 3.0. If you do need the math features then APH recommends you downgrade to 2.1.9. Sorry for the problems this causes. Michael Whapples From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 3 08:50:43 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Message-ID: Hello ATHEN! I've looked through the archives, and I'm wondering if folks have experience with InDesign and the Reading Order Panel/Content Panel specifically in Acrobat? Arranging the content in InDesign using the Articles panel creates the PDF with the correct tag order, but the reading order and content order (essential for reading technologies like text-to-speech, Read Aloud in Edge, for example), are completely out of order in Acrobat. Does anyone know of a way to address this issue at the InDesign level? With how InDesign exports every line as a separate content box (as opposed to grouping all lines of a paragraph together in one content box, for example), that creates a ton of containers in the Content panel in Acrobat, so having to adjust the order in the Content panel in Acrobat will be no easy feat. Thanks! Robin [Nelnet Logo] Robin Eckelberry IT Software Engineer ? Accessibility Nelnet - Accessibility Services Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of Nelnet, Inc. and its affiliated companies (Nelnet) and is intended for the recipient only. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of Nelnet is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-Nelnet Log.png Type: image/png Size: 5721 bytes Desc: Outlook-Nelnet Log.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 3 08:55:44 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Hayman, Douglass via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Robin, If you don't get a helpful answer to this here on ATHEN, you may want to try the webaim list or the PDF Accessibility group on Facebook as both have seasoned InDesign/PDF accessibility people discussing such things. Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 From: athen-list On Behalf Of Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 8:51 AM To: ATHEN Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello ATHEN! I've looked through the archives, and I'm wondering if folks have experience with InDesign and the Reading Order Panel/Content Panel specifically in Acrobat? Arranging the content in InDesign using the Articles panel creates the PDF with the correct tag order, but the reading order and content order (essential for reading technologies like text-to-speech, Read Aloud in Edge, for example), are completely out of order in Acrobat. Does anyone know of a way to address this issue at the InDesign level? With how InDesign exports every line as a separate content box (as opposed to grouping all lines of a paragraph together in one content box, for example), that creates a ton of containers in the Content panel in Acrobat, so having to adjust the order in the Content panel in Acrobat will be no easy feat. Thanks! Robin [Nelnet Logo] Robin Eckelberry IT Software Engineer - Accessibility Nelnet - Accessibility Services Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net ________________________________ The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of Nelnet, Inc. and its affiliated companies (Nelnet) and is intended for the recipient only. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of Nelnet is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 5721 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 3 09:29:00 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Steve Green via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat's Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it's faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass via athen-list Sent: 03 April 2025 16:56 To: Eckelberry, Robin ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Robin, If you don't get a helpful answer to this here on ATHEN, you may want to try the webaim list or the PDF Accessibility group on Facebook as both have seasoned InDesign/PDF accessibility people discussing such things. Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 8:51 AM To: ATHEN > Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello ATHEN! I've looked through the archives, and I'm wondering if folks have experience with InDesign and the Reading Order Panel/Content Panel specifically in Acrobat? Arranging the content in InDesign using the Articles panel creates the PDF with the correct tag order, but the reading order and content order (essential for reading technologies like text-to-speech, Read Aloud in Edge, for example), are completely out of order in Acrobat. Does anyone know of a way to address this issue at the InDesign level? With how InDesign exports every line as a separate content box (as opposed to grouping all lines of a paragraph together in one content box, for example), that creates a ton of containers in the Content panel in Acrobat, so having to adjust the order in the Content panel in Acrobat will be no easy feat. Thanks! Robin [Nelnet Logo] Robin Eckelberry IT Software Engineer - Accessibility Nelnet - Accessibility Services Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net ________________________________ The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of Nelnet, Inc. and its affiliated companies (Nelnet) and is intended for the recipient only. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of Nelnet is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 5721 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 3 11:41:32 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> ChatGPT 4.5: Ensuring the correct reading order in PDFs exported from InDesign has evolved, offering more integrated solutions than were available in 2021. Previously, you noted that the reading order in Acrobat's Content panel was determined by the sequence of object creation in InDesign and could only be altered by cutting and pasting objects, potentially disrupting the Articles panel order. Since then, InDesign has introduced features that allow for more precise control over reading order directly within the application. Key Developments: 1. Articles Panel Utilization: * The Articles panel in InDesign enables you to define the reading order by organizing content into articles. By dragging and dropping frames and objects into this panel, you can set a logical sequence without altering the page layout. It's crucial to select "Use for Tagging Order in Tagged PDF" in the Articles panel menu to ensure this order is recognized upon export. 2. Layer Panel Stacking Order: * The stacking order of elements in the Layers panel affects the reading order in the exported PDF. Items at the bottom of the Layers panel are read first. Therefore, arranging layers from bottom to top in the desired reading sequence can help control the reading order. 3. Threading Text Frames: * Linking text frames ensures a continuous and logical flow of text, which is beneficial for maintaining the correct reading order. Threaded text frames are treated as a single story, preserving the intended sequence. 4. Anchoring Objects: * Anchoring images and other objects within text frames ensures they are read in context with related text. This method integrates non-text elements into the reading flow appropriately. By implementing these strategies, you can establish the desired reading order within InDesign, reducing the need for post-export adjustments in Acrobat. This integrated approach streamlines the workflow and enhances document accessibility.? For a visual guide on using the Articles panel to control reading order, you might find the following tutorial helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2NJomPXBQ. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM To: Hayman, Douglass ; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass via athen-list Sent: 03 April 2025 16:56 To: Eckelberry, Robin >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Robin, If you don?t get a helpful answer to this here on ATHEN, you may want to try the webaim list or the PDF Accessibility group on Facebook as both have seasoned InDesign/PDF accessibility people discussing such things. Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 8:51 AM To: ATHEN > Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello ATHEN! I've looked through the archives, and I'm wondering if folks have experience with InDesign and the Reading Order Panel/Content Panel specifically in Acrobat? Arranging the content in InDesign using the Articles panel creates the PDF with the correct tag order, but the reading order and content order (essential for reading technologies like text-to-speech, Read Aloud in Edge, for example), are completely out of order in Acrobat. Does anyone know of a way to address this issue at the InDesign level? With how InDesign exports every line as a separate content box (as opposed to grouping all lines of a paragraph together in one content box, for example), that creates a ton of containers in the Content panel in Acrobat, so having to adjust the order in the Content panel in Acrobat will be no easy feat. Thanks! Robin Robin Eckelberry IT Software Engineer ? Accessibility Nelnet - Accessibility Services Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net _____ The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of Nelnet, Inc. and its affiliated companies (Nelnet) and is intended for the recipient only. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of Nelnet is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 5721 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 7 08:38:17 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Aneesha Aslam via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] The 2025 Learning Impact Report - Student survey results Message-ID: Hello everyone, our biggest annual webinar about the Learning Impact Report is coming up this week *(Wednesday, April 9th )* where we share the student survey results - LIVE. Wanted to share the details here in case anybody is interested and wants to attend. *Some key areas that will be covered will include:* - Hearing the firsthand results of our student survey conducted across North America in Fall 2024 and early 2025. - Discovering if independent note taking boosts confidence, improves grades, and reduces stress. - Getting an exclusive preview of our in-depth report, ?The Learning Impact Report 2025?. This session takes place via Zoom on *Wednesday, April 9th at 12pm ET/ 11am CT.* You can find out more information here - https://glean.co/events/the-2025-learning-impact-report-results Let me know in the thread if you have any questions! All the best, Aneesha -- *Aneesha Aslam *(she/her) Senior Marketing Executive aneesha.aslam@glean.co -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: The 2025 Learning Impact Report.png Type: image/png Size: 165621 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AAA Clip.mp4 Type: video/mp4 Size: 7430697 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 7 10:19:53 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:01 2025 Subject: [Athen] OCR with writing on the page Message-ID: Hi I was sent a document by someone today to OCR. It has writing on it and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to OCR it. We use Abby and Adobe. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks Lorraine Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 lnorwich@bu.edu (email) 617-353-3658 (vox) 617-353-9646 (fax) www.bu.edu/disability (website) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 7 10:22:06 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Susan Kelmer via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] OCR with writing on the page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You OCR as normal, but then you spend some time manual editing to fix what came through that shouldn't, and replace what was obscured. I do this on the daily, it's all just part of the process. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Health and Wellness Services T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image001.png@01DBA7AF.4B234680] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list Sent: Monday, April 7, 2025 11:20 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] OCR with writing on the page [External email - use caution] Hi I was sent a document by someone today to OCR. It has writing on it and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to OCR it. We use Abby and Adobe. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks Lorraine Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 lnorwich@bu.edu (email) 617-353-3658 (vox) 617-353-9646 (fax) www.bu.edu/disability (website) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 7 11:29:11 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Luke Kudryashov via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] May 15, 2025: Register for Global Accessibility Awareness Day! Message-ID: [image: Logo: Global Accessibility Awareness Day; Committing to Change; May 15, 2025. Sponsored by; University of Minnesota, University of Illinois System, and University of Michigan] You are invited to register for Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD) on May 15, 2025. Join us for a virtual event on the theme of 'Committing to Change,' which will spark conversations and enhance understanding about digital access and inclusion. GAAD 2025 will include: - Keynote presentation from Dr. Ludmila Praslova , author of The Canary Code . - Breakout sessions in the areas of advancing accessibility in higher education, disability culture & justice, and universal design. Visit the GAAD event website for more information. All session times are listed in Central Daylight Time. Registration is required . Use your UMN email account, or any other Google account, when you register to ensure the sessions you select get added to your Google calendar. If you don?t have a Google account, you can create one with an existing email account . Accommodations ASL and captioning will be provided for the keynote and all sessions. Slides and handouts will be available a few days prior on the GAAD event website . During this event we embrace and celebrate the skills, experiences, perspectives, ideas, and personal characteristics of all participants. We strive to foster an environment that leverages the unique contributions of all individuals. Please let us know how we can ensure that this event is inclusive to you by indicating any accommodation needs on the registration form. If your accommodation preference changes, please email gaad-conference@umn.edu by May 1, 2025 to help us fulfill them in time. Questions? Email gaad-conference@umn.edu to reach the planning committee. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing you on May 15! GAAD Planning Committee -- Luke Kudryashov Senior Digital Accessibility Analyst, Deputy ADA Coordinator Office for Digital Accessibility | accessibility.umn.edu University of Minnesota | umn.edu kudry003@umn.edu Pronouns: He/They -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 7 14:51:51 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron! Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note. To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat. I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021! Thanks again! P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. ________________________________ From: Top Tech Tidbits Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM To: 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) This Message is From an External Sender Always be cautious of links and attachments, and think before you click! ChatGPT 4.5: Ensuring the correct reading order in PDFs exported from InDesign has evolved, offering more integrated solutions than were available in 2021. Previously, you noted that the reading order in Acrobat's Content panel was determined by the sequence of object creation in InDesign and could only be altered by cutting and pasting objects, potentially disrupting the Articles panel order. Since then, InDesign has introduced features that allow for more precise control over reading order directly within the application. Key Developments: 1. Articles Panel Utilization: * The Articles panel in InDesign enables you to define the reading order by organizing content into articles. By dragging and dropping frames and objects into this panel, you can set a logical sequence without altering the page layout. It's crucial to select "Use for Tagging Order in Tagged PDF" in the Articles panel menu to ensure this order is recognized upon export. 2. Layer Panel Stacking Order: * The stacking order of elements in the Layers panel affects the reading order in the exported PDF. Items at the bottom of the Layers panel are read first. Therefore, arranging layers from bottom to top in the desired reading sequence can help control the reading order. 3. Threading Text Frames: * Linking text frames ensures a continuous and logical flow of text, which is beneficial for maintaining the correct reading order. Threaded text frames are treated as a single story, preserving the intended sequence. 4. Anchoring Objects: * Anchoring images and other objects within text frames ensures they are read in context with related text. This method integrates non-text elements into the reading flow appropriately. By implementing these strategies, you can establish the desired reading order within InDesign, reducing the need for post-export adjustments in Acrobat. This integrated approach streamlines the workflow and enhances document accessibility.? For a visual guide on using the Articles panel to control reading order, you might find the following tutorial helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2NJomPXBQ. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP [Aaron Di Blasi, Sr. Project Management Professional, Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd., Publisher, Top Tech Tidbits, Publisher, Access Information News stands smiling, arms crossed, in a suit and tie.] ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM To: Hayman, Douglass ; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass via athen-list Sent: 03 April 2025 16:56 To: Eckelberry, Robin >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Robin, If you don?t get a helpful answer to this here on ATHEN, you may want to try the webaim list or the PDF Accessibility group on Facebook as both have seasoned InDesign/PDF accessibility people discussing such things. Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 8:51 AM To: ATHEN > Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello ATHEN! I've looked through the archives, and I'm wondering if folks have experience with InDesign and the Reading Order Panel/Content Panel specifically in Acrobat? Arranging the content in InDesign using the Articles panel creates the PDF with the correct tag order, but the reading order and content order (essential for reading technologies like text-to-speech, Read Aloud in Edge, for example), are completely out of order in Acrobat. Does anyone know of a way to address this issue at the InDesign level? With how InDesign exports every line as a separate content box (as opposed to grouping all lines of a paragraph together in one content box, for example), that creates a ton of containers in the Content panel in Acrobat, so having to adjust the order in the Content panel in Acrobat will be no easy feat. Thanks! Robin [Nelnet Logo] Robin Eckelberry IT Software Engineer ? Accessibility Nelnet - Accessibility Services Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net ________________________________ The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of Nelnet, Inc. and its affiliated companies (Nelnet) and is intended for the recipient only. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of Nelnet is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 5721 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 7 15:57:49 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: <00bd01dba810$7cfead50$76fc07f0$@toptechtidbits.com> Hi Robin, Thank you so much for the detailed follow-up, and great sleuthing! Your results absolutely reinforce the direction we've all been leaning, and it?s encouraging to see how both your WebAIM outreach and hands-on testing have validated what ChatGPT and others have flagged regarding InDesign's layer-based reading order behavior. The confirmation that Acrobat's reading order is bottom-to-top relative to InDesign's Layer panel is indeed a key takeaway. It's great to hear that this method worked cleanly for you and produced a proper Order panel flow in Acrobat without needing the more invasive cut/paste workaround that Steve originally detailed back in 2021. It?s also reassuring to note how much more workable this has become since then. InDesign?s evolution in handling accessibility and structure is certainly moving in a better direction. Thanks again for sharing your findings with the group. These kinds of field-tested insights are incredibly valuable. And no rush at all on the Google Workspace info. Look forward to digging into that whenever you're ready! Warmly, Aaron Di Blasi, PMP ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: Eckelberry, Robin Sent: Monday, April 7, 2025 5:52 PM To: 'Steve Green' ; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' ; 'Hayman, Douglass' ; enews@toptechtidbits.com Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron! Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note. To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat. I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021! Thanks again! P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. _____ From: Top Tech Tidbits Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM To: 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) This Message is From an External Sender Always be cautious of links and attachments, and think before you click! ChatGPT 4.5: Ensuring the correct reading order in PDFs exported from InDesign has evolved, offering more integrated solutions than were available in 2021. Previously, you noted that the reading order in Acrobat's Content panel was determined by the sequence of object creation in InDesign and could only be altered by cutting and pasting objects, potentially disrupting the Articles panel order. Since then, InDesign has introduced features that allow for more precise control over reading order directly within the application. Key Developments: 1. Articles Panel Utilization: * The Articles panel in InDesign enables you to define the reading order by organizing content into articles. By dragging and dropping frames and objects into this panel, you can set a logical sequence without altering the page layout. It's crucial to select "Use for Tagging Order in Tagged PDF" in the Articles panel menu to ensure this order is recognized upon export. 2. Layer Panel Stacking Order: * The stacking order of elements in the Layers panel affects the reading order in the exported PDF. Items at the bottom of the Layers panel are read first. Therefore, arranging layers from bottom to top in the desired reading sequence can help control the reading order. 3. Threading Text Frames: * Linking text frames ensures a continuous and logical flow of text, which is beneficial for maintaining the correct reading order. Threaded text frames are treated as a single story, preserving the intended sequence. 4. Anchoring Objects: * Anchoring images and other objects within text frames ensures they are read in context with related text. This method integrates non-text elements into the reading flow appropriately. By implementing these strategies, you can establish the desired reading order within InDesign, reducing the need for post-export adjustments in Acrobat. This integrated approach streamlines the workflow and enhances document accessibility.? For a visual guide on using the Articles panel to control reading order, you might find the following tutorial helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2NJomPXBQ . Aaron Di Blasi, PMP ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA , WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660 ?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Steve Green via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM To: Hayman, Douglass >; Access Technology Higher Education Network >; Eckelberry, Robin > Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass via athen-list Sent: 03 April 2025 16:56 To: Eckelberry, Robin >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Robin, If you don?t get a helpful answer to this here on ATHEN, you may want to try the webaim list or the PDF Accessibility group on Facebook as both have seasoned InDesign/PDF accessibility people discussing such things. Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 8:51 AM To: ATHEN > Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello ATHEN! I've looked through the archives, and I'm wondering if folks have experience with InDesign and the Reading Order Panel/Content Panel specifically in Acrobat? Arranging the content in InDesign using the Articles panel creates the PDF with the correct tag order, but the reading order and content order (essential for reading technologies like text-to-speech, Read Aloud in Edge, for example), are completely out of order in Acrobat. Does anyone know of a way to address this issue at the InDesign level? With how InDesign exports every line as a separate content box (as opposed to grouping all lines of a paragraph together in one content box, for example), that creates a ton of containers in the Content panel in Acrobat, so having to adjust the order in the Content panel in Acrobat will be no easy feat. Thanks! Robin Robin Eckelberry IT Software Engineer ? Accessibility Nelnet - Accessibility Services Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net _____ The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of Nelnet, Inc. and its affiliated companies (Nelnet) and is intended for the recipient only. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of Nelnet is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 5721 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 06:34:49 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Message-ID: Good Morning, Can anyone share a way you have taken a PDF with handwritten notes and converted it into OCR'd text. Thanks in advance Lorraine Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 lnorwich@bu.edu (email) 617-353-3658 (vox) 617-353-9646 (fax) www.bu.edu/disability (website) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 06:37:00 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Susan Kelmer via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I answered this yesterday, but maybe you didn't see it? You OCR as you normally would, but you will have to get in the resulting document and fix the mis-identified text manually. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Health and Wellness Services T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image001.png@01DBA859.0330FF20] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:35 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text [External email - use caution] Good Morning, Can anyone share a way you have taken a PDF with handwritten notes and converted it into OCR'd text. Thanks in advance Lorraine Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 lnorwich@bu.edu (email) 617-353-3658 (vox) 617-353-9646 (fax) www.bu.edu/disability (website) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 07:01:59 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXT] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scan it with Mathpix. Great for words, equations, and even scanning text in other languages. *Elizabeth Killinger* *Associate Coordinator* *FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability ServicesFashion Institute of Technology* David Dubinsky Student Center, A570 Phone: 212.217.4090 Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 9:35?AM Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > > > Good Morning, > > > > Can anyone share a way you have taken a PDF with handwritten notes and > converted it into OCR?d text. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Lorraine > > > > Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS > > Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services > > 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 > > lnorwich@bu.edu (email) > > 617-353-3658 (vox) > > 617-353-9646 (fax) > > www.bu.edu/disability (website) > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 07:17:54 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lorraine Are you asking if there is handwriting recognition software to convert a PDF of handwritten notes into text? Or if it is a PDF of text with handwriting in the margins? Different software & work process for the OCR conversion is involved. Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 6:35?AM Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > > > Good Morning, > > > > Can anyone share a way you have taken a PDF with handwritten notes and > converted it into OCR?d text. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Lorraine > > > > Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS > > Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services > > 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 > > > lnorwich@bu.edu (email) > > 617-353-3658 (vox) > > 617-353-9646 (fax) > > www.bu.edu/disability (website) > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 08:36:32 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> Message-ID: I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM wrote: > Wink, > > It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking > for recommendations on. > > Thanks > > Lorraine > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 09:40:19 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXT] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, MathPix has two options: snip option or full PDF option. Snip option is good for selecting a block of math text and converting it to HTML, LaTeX, or math markup and creating page-by-page accessible alt text. The PDF version can do large volume PDF conversions, but excludes handwriting and anything in the margins. Any/all of the material excluded from the scan must be reinserted manually (typed). Here?s more info from MathPix: https://mathpix.com/blog/pdf-processing-new-pricing It does have a cap on the number of pages per month you can scan. Is it a good tool? Yes indeed! One we should have in our alt text toolboxes. Will it do what you need? I?d test it out for myself, but my inclination is to say that it won?t be the ?easy button? you?re hoping for. Wink Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 7:03?AM ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > Scan it with Mathpix. Great for words, equations, and even scanning text > in other languages. > > > *Elizabeth Killinger* > *Associate Coordinator* > > *FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability ServicesFashion Institute of Technology* > David Dubinsky Student Center, A570 > Phone: 212.217.4090 > Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 9:35?AM Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > >> >> >> Good Morning, >> >> >> >> Can anyone share a way you have taken a PDF with handwritten notes and >> converted it into OCR?d text. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> >> >> Lorraine >> >> >> >> Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS >> >> Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services >> >> 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 >> >> >> lnorwich@bu.edu (email) >> >> 617-353-3658 (vox) >> >> 617-353-9646 (fax) >> >> www.bu.edu/disability (website) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> athen-list mailing list >> athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu >> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list >> > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 10:25:57 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Accessibility of Social Annotation Tools? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perusall has a lot of accessibility tools, a comprehensive list of keyboard shortcuts, a read out loud button and ability to change themes, fonts and such. But I'm having some issues using it with a screen reader, because it wants users to highlight text using caret browsing mode, and screen readers do not see it as a web app the way they do with the Google suite or Office online. Also the instructor must provide text rather than images of a textbook for students to annotate, otherwise it becomes inaccessible. The system attempts to OCR the text but does a terrible job. I think for many disabilities Perusall would work well, and I'm still trying to find a way for a screen reader to know when text is being highlighted and read while text is being selected. --Debee From: athen-list On Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 9:47 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network (athen-list@u.washington.edu) Subject: [Athen] Accessibility of Social Annotation Tools? Hi everyone, We will be switching our LMS from Blackboard Learn to Moodle beginning in the spring 2022 term. There is some discussion about including social annotation tools within the LMS. Has anyone had any experience with social annotation tools? If so, how accessible are they? Here is a brief description of social annotation tools, followed by a list of the 3 tools being considered at our institution. If anyone has any information as to how accessible any of the below tools are, that would be greatly appreciated. Definition: What is social annotation? Social annotation is reading and thinking together. It brings the age-old process of marking up texts to the digital learning space while making it a collaborative exercise. Three tools being considered: 1. Hyposthes.is (browser extension) - Open Source but cost to integrate it into LMS https://web.hypothes.is/blog/annotating-with-hypothesis-is-fully-accessible/ https://d242fdlp0qlcia.cloudfront.net/uploads/2021/02/14144633/Hypothesis-VPAT-2020.07.22.pdf 1. Perusall (LTI) - actual e-reader with annotation tools https://perusall.com/downloads/vpat.pdf 1. Talis Elevate https://support.talis.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000695158-Web-Accessibility-Statement Vanderbilt University comparison chart of Hypothes.is and Perusall Thank you for any information at all. Take care, Russell Russell Solowoniuk AT Educational Assistant, Access and Disability Resources MacEwan University 7-164K, 10700-104 Ave. Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2 E: solowoniukr@macewan.ca T: 780-497-5826 F: 780-497-4018 macewan.ca [MacEwan Logo] This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. Please consider the environment before printing this email We acknowledge that the land on which we gather in Treaty Six Territory is the traditional gathering place for many Indigenous people. We honour and respect the history, languages, ceremonies and culture of the First Nations, M?tis and Inuit who call this territory home. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3516 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 10:27:39 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, I am struggling to use it with a screen reader as well. I think the problem is the screen reader does not know it is a web application and thus is unable to read when you highlight text. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Priest, Ione Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:54 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Perusall Hi all, I'm wondering if anyone has experience they'd be willing to share with Perusall, particularly with it being integrated into Canvas. I've seen their accessibility statements and such, but was looking for real-world feedback to speak to the accessibility. Thanks, Ione Priest (she/they) | Accessibility Technology Manager CPACC, DHS Certified Trusted Tester Access Center Metropolitan State University of Denver Campus Box 56, P.O. Box 173362, Denver, CO 80217-3362 303-615-0200 (office) www.msudenver.edu/access This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 11:01:25 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Matson, Eric (ecmatson@uidaho.edu) via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? Message-ID: Hey all, Working with a low vision student, and when we turn on magnifier and high contrast in windows, the screen flickers. I haven't seen it before and having problems finding solutions. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric Matson | Assistant Director - Assistive Technology & Accommodation Operations Center for Disability Access and Resources Division of Student Affairs The University of Idaho Phone: 208.885.6307 | ecmatson@uidaho.edu| Message me on Teams Bruce M. Pitman Center 127 Fax: 208.885.9404 Campus Zip: 4257 Treasurer - Idaho Partnership on Higher Education and Disability Pronouns: He / Him / His This communication, including any attachments, is intended solely for the entity or individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately and delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of the contents of this message is prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 11:04:31 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXT] Re: Perusall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Use one that had a browser extension. https://chromewebstore.google.com/collection/3p_accessibility_extensions?pli=1 *Elizabeth Killinger* *Associate Coordinator* *FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability ServicesFashion Institute of Technology* David Dubinsky Student Center, A570 Phone: 212.217.4090 Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 1:28?PM Deborah Armstrong via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > Yeah, I am struggling to use it with a screen reader as well. I think the > problem is the screen reader does not know it is a web application and thus > is unable to read when you highlight text. > > > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Priest, Ione > *Sent:* Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:54 AM > *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> > *Subject:* [Athen] Perusall > > > > Hi all, > > > > I?m wondering if anyone has experience they?d be willing to share with > Perusall, particularly with it being integrated into Canvas. I?ve seen > their accessibility statements and such, but was looking for real-world > feedback to speak to the accessibility. > > > > Thanks, > > > > *Ione Priest* *(she/they)* | *Accessibility Technology Manager* > > CPACC, DHS Certified Trusted Tester > > Access Center > > Metropolitan State University of Denver > > Campus Box 56, P.O. Box 173362, Denver, CO 80217-3362 > > 303-615-0200 (office) > > www.msudenver.edu/access > > > > > *This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any > unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by > reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.* > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 11:07:56 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Kelly Ford via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, If you don't find a solution, this is the sort of situation that Microsoft's enterprise Disability Answer Desk exists to help resolve. You can email edad@microsoft.com. For more review: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/enterprise-answer-desk Kelly From: athen-list On Behalf Of Matson, Eric (ecmatson@uidaho.edu) via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 1:01 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? Hey all, Working with a low vision student, and when we turn on magnifier and high contrast in windows, the screen flickers. I haven't seen it before and having problems finding solutions. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric Matson | Assistant Director - Assistive Technology & Accommodation Operations Center for Disability Access and Resources Division of Student Affairs The University of Idaho Phone: 208.885.6307 | ecmatson@uidaho.edu| Message me on Teams Bruce M. Pitman Center 127 Fax: 208.885.9404 Campus Zip: 4257 Treasurer - Idaho Partnership on Higher Education and Disability Pronouns: He / Him / His This communication, including any attachments, is intended solely for the entity or individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately and delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of the contents of this message is prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 11:09:30 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Robert Beach via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like a video card issue. Is this on a cheaper laptop? It is possible it is the monitor itself. If possible, try plugging in a different monitor. If it is the video card, you'll probably get the same results. Robert Lee Beach, Assistive Technology Specialist Kansas City Kansas Community College rbeach@kckcc.edu 913-288-7671 From: athen-list On Behalf Of Matson, Eric (ecmatson@uidaho.edu) via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 1:01 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? Hey all, Working with a low vision student, and when we turn on magnifier and high contrast in windows, the screen flickers. I haven't seen it before and having problems finding solutions. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric Matson | Assistant Director - Assistive Technology & Accommodation Operations Center for Disability Access and Resources Division of Student Affairs The University of Idaho Phone: 208.885.6307 | ecmatson@uidaho.edu| Message me on Teams Bruce M. Pitman Center 127 Fax: 208.885.9404 Campus Zip: 4257 Treasurer - Idaho Partnership on Higher Education and Disability Pronouns: He / Him / His This communication, including any attachments, is intended solely for the entity or individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately and delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of the contents of this message is prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 11:10:03 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (JORDISON_SHAWN via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An old trick I used to use was to reduce the resolution on the monitor which would then cause most of the screen to automatically zoom. The flicker is from the FPS on the monitor and magnification - at least that's my guess. I would try lowering monitor resolution THEN magnifier and THEN color swap. * Shawn ? Shawn Jordison MS, Ed.D 530-238-5645 Accessibility Subject Matter Expert Book a Session with me YouTube channel featuring Accessibility Tutorials [Sent from Front] On April 8, 2025 at 11:02 AM PDT athen-list@u.washington.edu wrote: CAUTION: This email originated outside SMC. Hey all, Working with a low vision student, and when we turn on magnifier and high contrast in windows, the screen flickers. I haven?t seen it before and having problems finding solutions. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric Matson | Assistant Director - Assistive Technology & Accommodation Operations Center for Disability Access and Resources Division of Student Affairs The University of Idaho Phone: 208.885.6307 | ecmatson@uidaho.edu| Message me on Teams Bruce M. Pitman Center 127 Fax: 208.885.9404 Campus Zip: 4257 Treasurer ? Idaho Partnership on Higher Education and Disability Pronouns: He / Him / His This communication, including any attachments, is intended solely for the entity or individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately and delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of the contents of this message is prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 11:46:39 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like a lower end GPU and/or a low end monitor. If the resolution fix doesn?t sit right with the student, there are external GPU?s (eGPU) that can be added which should fix the screen flickering. I would also be interested in the amount of RAM that?s installed. I like 32G as a minimum (I have 32G RAM on my Macbook, 64G of RAM on my PC). I always use Displayport for connecting laptops to monitors, which has a screen refresh of 120Hz, while HDMI is limited to 60Hz. As an alternative, we have a student using Apple Vision Pro as an accommodation at UCSF. https://synapse.ucsf.edu/articles/2024/04/23/im-visually-impaired-apple-vision-pro-amazing-assistive-device Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list on behalf of JORDISON_SHAWN via athen-list Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 11:11?AM To: Matson, Eric (ecmatson@uidaho.edu) , Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Windows High Contrast + Magnifier causing screen to flicker? An old trick I used to use was to reduce the resolution on the monitor which would then cause most of the screen to automatically zoom. The flicker is from the FPS on the monitor and magnification - at least that's my guess. I would try lowering monitor resolution THEN magnifier and THEN color swap. * Shawn ? Shawn Jordison MS, Ed.D 530-238-5645 Accessibility Subject Matter Expert Book a Session with me YouTube channel featuring Accessibility Tutorials [Image removed by sender. Sent from Front] On April 8, 2025 at 11:02 AM PDT athen-list@u.washington.edu wrote: CAUTION: This email originated outside SMC. Hey all, Working with a low vision student, and when we turn on magnifier and high contrast in windows, the screen flickers. I haven?t seen it before and having problems finding solutions. Any ideas? Thanks, Eric Matson | Assistant Director - Assistive Technology & Accommodation Operations Center for Disability Access and Resources Division of Student Affairs The University of Idaho Phone: 208.885.6307 | ecmatson@uidaho.edu| Message me on Teams Bruce M. Pitman Center 127 Fax: 208.885.9404 Campus Zip: 4257 Treasurer ? Idaho Partnership on Higher Education and Disability Pronouns: He / Him / His This communication, including any attachments, is intended solely for the entity or individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately and delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of the contents of this message is prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 12:15:36 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXT] Re: Perusall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We tested Perusall a while back and found that it did not work well with screen readers and left out a lot of information. From: athen-list On Behalf Of ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 2:05 PM To: Deborah Armstrong ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXT] Re: Perusall Use one that had a browser extension. https://chromewebstore.google.com/collection/3p_accessibility_extensions?pli=1 Elizabeth Killinger Associate Coordinator FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services Fashion Institute of Technology David Dubinsky Student Center, A570 Phone: 212.217.4090 Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 1:28?PM Deborah Armstrong via athen-list > wrote: Yeah, I am struggling to use it with a screen reader as well. I think the problem is the screen reader does not know it is a web application and thus is unable to read when you highlight text. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Priest, Ione Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:54 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] Perusall Hi all, I?m wondering if anyone has experience they?d be willing to share with Perusall, particularly with it being integrated into Canvas. I?ve seen their accessibility statements and such, but was looking for real-world feedback to speak to the accessibility. Thanks, Ione Priest (she/they) | Accessibility Technology Manager CPACC, DHS Certified Trusted Tester Access Center Metropolitan State University of Denver Campus Box 56, P.O. Box 173362, Denver, CO 80217-3362 303-615-0200 (office) www.msudenver.edu/access This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 12:24:10 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXT] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wink, Thanks for sharing this. I found a work around that I will share. I used the free online version of Pen to Print that did an okay job of producing a text document. We then copied information from text doc and put it into a word doc. The word doc was from the original handwritten PDF had already been OCR?d with Abby and saved to word, so we were able to get a structured document to work on with a lot of gobbledygook on it. By putting the text and doc together we had something we could work with something manageable, and test for the student and get it to her. Thanks to everyone for your input. Best, Lorraine From: athen-list On Behalf Of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 12:40 PM To: ELIZABETH KILLINGER ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXT] Handwriting to OCR text Hi all, MathPix has two options: snip option or full PDF option. Snip option is good for selecting a block of math text and converting it to HTML, LaTeX, or math markup and creating page-by-page accessible alt text. The PDF version can do large volume PDF conversions, but excludes handwriting and anything in the margins. Any/all of the material excluded from the scan must be reinserted manually (typed). Here?s more info from MathPix: https://mathpix.com/blog/pdf-processing-new-pricing It does have a cap on the number of pages per month you can scan. Is it a good tool? Yes indeed! One we should have in our alt text toolboxes. Will it do what you need? I?d test it out for myself, but my inclination is to say that it won?t be the ?easy button? you?re hoping for. Wink Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 7:03?AM ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list > wrote: Scan it with Mathpix. Great for words, equations, and even scanning text in other languages. Elizabeth Killinger Associate Coordinator FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services Fashion Institute of Technology David Dubinsky Student Center, A570 Phone: 212.217.4090 Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 9:35?AM Norwich, Lorraine via athen-list > wrote: Good Morning, Can anyone share a way you have taken a PDF with handwritten notes and converted it into OCR?d text. Thanks in advance Lorraine Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 lnorwich@bu.edu (email) 617-353-3658 (vox) 617-353-9646 (fax) www.bu.edu/disability (website) _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 12:24:27 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote a long support request to Perusall. I wish I knew what happens that makes Word online and Google Docs work well with screen readers, because the problem with Perusall is that turning on caret browsing and turning off the virtual cursor or browse mode in a screen reader also eliminates the ability for it to give feedback or follow the focus or cursor. They insist it works with screen readers, which is why I'm trying to pursue this so intensively. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 10:28 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Perusall Yeah, I am struggling to use it with a screen reader as well. I think the problem is the screen reader does not know it is a web application and thus is unable to read when you highlight text. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Priest, Ione Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:54 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] Perusall Hi all, I'm wondering if anyone has experience they'd be willing to share with Perusall, particularly with it being integrated into Canvas. I've seen their accessibility statements and such, but was looking for real-world feedback to speak to the accessibility. Thanks, Ione Priest (she/they) | Accessibility Technology Manager CPACC, DHS Certified Trusted Tester Access Center Metropolitan State University of Denver Campus Box 56, P.O. Box 173362, Denver, CO 80217-3362 303-615-0200 (office) www.msudenver.edu/access This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 17:18:16 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> Message-ID: SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 17:33:11 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Travis Roth via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> Message-ID: <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 8 17:58:59 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> Message-ID: The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 9 05:40:26 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karlen Communications via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> Message-ID: <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com ; Access Technology Higher Education Network >; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 10 05:13:14 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karen McCall via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> Message-ID: Here are a couple of resources from Microsoft Support Take Handwritten notes in OneNote: Take handwritten notes in OneNote - Microsoft Support https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/take-handwritten-notes-in-onenote-0ec88c54-05f3-4cac-b452-9ee62cebbd4c Introducing the Ink to Text Pen tool in Word, OneNote, and PowerPoint for Window This technique turns your handwriting to text as you write. Introducing the Ink to Text Pen tool in Word, OneNote, and PowerPoint for Windows https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/microsoft365insiderblog/introducing-the-ink-to-text-pen-tool-in-word-onenote-and-powerpoint-for-windows/4222008 Both tools have been around for a while but have been updated and put in a different place. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Karlen Communications via athen-list Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 8:40 AM To: 'Joshua Hori' ; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' ; 'Travis Roth' Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 10 08:53:51 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall update Message-ID: So the folks at Perusall are very supportive. Even their CTO contacted me about my accessibility issue. I am going to screen share with one of their developers in just a few minutes. Perusall does automatically OCR any document the teacher embeds in its interface. But if it is a low-res image, such as a camera-phone photo of a page, the OCR is lousy. Hence professors really need to put accessible content in to the app. For selecting text, the keyboard user turns on caret browsing mode and selects text with the shift and arrow keys. To annotate (comment) on it) enter is pressed and the user is now in an edit field, able to easily type and correct text, just as if they were editing a discussion in Canvas. Screen reader users need to be sure to toggle the JAWS virtual cursor or the NVDA browse mode off. Mac users need to use Chrome or Firefox because they say, Safari doesn't have caret browsing. And I'd guess VoiceOver users would also need to disable the quick key navigation. Anyway, the problem I believe is really one with the screen readers, as they don't support caret browsing. Once you turn off browse or virtual cursor mode, you get no feedback. I've written to Freedom Scientific, saying this is a broader issue than just one web-based app. Caret browsing should be fully supported with feedback when that cursor is moved and focus changes. The screen readers are stuck in this 20th-century paradigm of the static web page, where you occasionally use a Forms or Focus mode to fill in a form. But the reality now of web-based apps means they need to fully support the browser as if it is an operating system. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 10 10:26:28 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perusall support recorded me demoing how I could easily select text with google docs and Office online with the virtual cursor off but not in Perusall. They are going to contact the developers of JAWS and NVDA to find out why it works in both those web apps but not in theirs. I really appreciate this company's over the top commitment and I think we need to realize the screen readers are as much to blame. The read out loud feature is very nice for any student who doesn't need a screen reader but does need speech. Another issue with browsers is that the tab key, which keyboard navigation relies on when in a web based app, also takes you in to the browser's interface, where you can often get stuck. We should all be complaining to google, Microsoft and Mozilla that they should use F6 and not tab so that tab lets you stay confined within the web page itself. --Debee From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:54 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: [Athen] Perusall update So the folks at Perusall are very supportive. Even their CTO contacted me about my accessibility issue. I am going to screen share with one of their developers in just a few minutes. Perusall does automatically OCR any document the teacher embeds in its interface. But if it is a low-res image, such as a camera-phone photo of a page, the OCR is lousy. Hence professors really need to put accessible content in to the app. For selecting text, the keyboard user turns on caret browsing mode and selects text with the shift and arrow keys. To annotate (comment) on it) enter is pressed and the user is now in an edit field, able to easily type and correct text, just as if they were editing a discussion in Canvas. Screen reader users need to be sure to toggle the JAWS virtual cursor or the NVDA browse mode off. Mac users need to use Chrome or Firefox because they say, Safari doesn't have caret browsing. And I'd guess VoiceOver users would also need to disable the quick key navigation. Anyway, the problem I believe is really one with the screen readers, as they don't support caret browsing. Once you turn off browse or virtual cursor mode, you get no feedback. I've written to Freedom Scientific, saying this is a broader issue than just one web-based app. Caret browsing should be fully supported with feedback when that cursor is moved and focus changes. The screen readers are stuck in this 20th-century paradigm of the static web page, where you occasionally use a Forms or Focus mode to fill in a form. But the reality now of web-based apps means they need to fully support the browser as if it is an operating system. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 10 17:12:49 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> Message-ID: I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori , 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' , 'Travis Roth' Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 11 05:53:53 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karen McCall via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> Message-ID: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications ; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' ; 'Travis Roth' Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 11 13:01:10 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (shelleyhaven techpotential.net via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> Message-ID: <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 11 13:55:54 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> Message-ID: Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall , Access Technology Higher ATHEN Cc: Joshua Hori , Karlen Communications , Travis Roth Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 11 14:33:32 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> Message-ID: <003701dbab29$60ac1220$22043660$@toptechtidbits.com> Please forgive the intrusion from someone who is NOT an expert in this matter. I just wanted to mention that we have had great success (as sighted persons at an ad agency) with using ChatGPT to recognize and translate handwriting by providing it with an image of said handwriting. Even entire sheets of it written in cursive. It?s pretty impressive. Better than what traditional OCR would provide of the same handwriting for sure. Again, no idea if this is relevant in any way, and if it is not, please forgive me, but I wanted to mention it just in case someone finds it useful. ? Aaron Di Blasi, PMP ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 4:56 PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net ; Karen McCall ; Access Technology Higher ATHEN Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Cc: Joshua Hori >, Karlen Communications >, Travis Roth > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list > wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications < info@karlencommunications.com>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Travis Roth' < travis@travisroth.com> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications < info@karlencommunications.com> Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori < jhori@ucdavis.edu>, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < athen-list@u.washington.edu>, 'Travis Roth' < travis@travisroth.com> Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth < travis@travisroth.com>; Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu>; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com < lorraine@rcn.com> Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM < lorraine@rcn.com> wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 11 14:38:21 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> Message-ID: And now I?ve tested with AI: Copilot: Gives the handwritten text, nothing more. ChatGPT: Gives the handwritten text, then explains it. The handwritten text is displayed through a code window that can be quickly copied separate from the explanation. Claude: Gives the handwritten text but is messy and needs additional formatting. It sticks multiple bullet points into one line. Perplexity: Gives the handwritten text and explanation but gets some of the latin font wrong. Gemini: Gives the handwritten text and explanation, one of the better solutions. I?ll have to test with some math equations next, then some chemistry lectures. Oh look! An email came in and I see Aaron from Top Tech is stating the same thing. ? Best, Joshua From: athen-list on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:57?PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net , Karen McCall , Access Technology Higher ATHEN Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall , Access Technology Higher ATHEN Cc: Joshua Hori , Karlen Communications , Travis Roth Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 11 15:54:49 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karthikeyan, Ramya via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> Message-ID: I have used Gemini (disabled , Lens (reliable to a certain extent) and Mathpix for handwritten text.. Best, Ramya Ramya Karthikeyan Alternative Format Specialist UCLA Center for Accessible Education 310-825-1501 (CAE line) http://www.cae.ucla.edu/ ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 2:38:21 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network ; shelleyhaven techpotential.net ; Karen McCall Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text And now I?ve tested with AI: Copilot: Gives the handwritten text, nothing more. ChatGPT: Gives the handwritten text, then explains it. The handwritten text is displayed through a code window that can be quickly copied separate from the explanation. Claude: Gives the handwritten text but is messy and needs additional formatting. It sticks multiple bullet points into one line. Perplexity: Gives the handwritten text and explanation but gets some of the latin font wrong. Gemini: Gives the handwritten text and explanation, one of the better solutions. I?ll have to test with some math equations next, then some chemistry lectures. Oh look! An email came in and I see Aaron from Top Tech is stating the same thing. ? Best, Joshua From: athen-list on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:57?PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net , Karen McCall , Access Technology Higher ATHEN Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall , Access Technology Higher ATHEN Cc: Joshua Hori , Karlen Communications , Travis Roth Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Sat Apr 12 13:27:18 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> Message-ID: <004501dbabe9$4a0a99e0$de1fcda0$@toptechtidbits.com> Thanks so much for the mention Joshua, but I will defer to your review which is much more thorough. We too tested this across all of the large paid models and ChatGPT 4o and Gemini 2.5 Pro consistently performed the best. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 5:38 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network ; shelleyhaven techpotential.net ; Karen McCall Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text And now I?ve tested with AI: Copilot: Gives the handwritten text, nothing more. ChatGPT: Gives the handwritten text, then explains it. The handwritten text is displayed through a code window that can be quickly copied separate from the explanation. Claude: Gives the handwritten text but is messy and needs additional formatting. It sticks multiple bullet points into one line. Perplexity: Gives the handwritten text and explanation but gets some of the latin font wrong. Gemini: Gives the handwritten text and explanation, one of the better solutions. I?ll have to test with some math equations next, then some chemistry lectures. Oh look! An email came in and I see Aaron from Top Tech is stating the same thing. ? Best, Joshua From: athen-list > on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:57?PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net >, Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Cc: Joshua Hori >, Karlen Communications >, Travis Roth > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list > wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications < info@karlencommunications.com>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Travis Roth' < travis@travisroth.com> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications < info@karlencommunications.com> Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori < jhori@ucdavis.edu>, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < athen-list@u.washington.edu>, 'Travis Roth' < travis@travisroth.com> Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth < travis@travisroth.com>; Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu>; lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list < athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of foreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com < lorraine@rcn.com> Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network < athen-list@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM < lorraine@rcn.com> wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Sat Apr 12 16:49:02 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: <004501dbabe9$4a0a99e0$de1fcda0$@toptechtidbits.com> References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> <004501dbabe9$4a0a99e0$de1fcda0$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: We have https://aggievideo.ucdavis.edu which has many public STEM courses you can test with me. ? Following up on the math tests: Math equations proved to be interesting, but I?m testing with multivariable calculus?Which has math characters most will never see. Here?s a whiteboard pulled from the course: [cid:image002.png@01DBABBF.2CFD90C0] * Mathpix gets most of it but needs a little readjusting. Just a little. * Gemini 2.5 Pro: gets quite a bit but messes up on the ?notion & def? line, all of it. * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq d instead of \geqslant d * Also has some mathml code showing instead of proper math output. Pops up in different places if regenerating the response. * GPT o3-mini-high: gets almost everything, but leaves out the ?\forall x,y,z?, lumping that last line with the previous ?for all?. It also: * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq d instead of \geqslant * Claude Sonnet 3.7: Sections the equations, but gets is sectioned correctly. * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq instead of \geqslant * Perlexity: Got everything right, with a few minor edits here and there. Less than Mathpix edits. *Shocked pikachu*. * Uses \geq instead of \geqslant * Copilot?tries. It tends to rewrite the equation. * \bar? \vec? We don?t do that here? * So many missing symbols, so many missing characters? \forall = upside down A \geq = greater than or equal to \geqslant = greater than or equal to, slant \bar(x) = x with bar over it \vec(x) = x with arrow over it Best, Joshua From: Top Tech Tidbits Date: Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 1:27?PM To: Joshua Hori , 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' , 'shelleyhaven techpotential.net' , 'Karen McCall' Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks so much for the mention Joshua, but I will defer to your review which is much more thorough. We too tested this across all of the large paid models and ChatGPT 4o and Gemini 2.5 Pro consistently performed the best. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP [Aaron Di Blasi, Sr. Project Management Professional, Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd., Publisher, Top Tech Tidbits, Publisher, Access Information News stands smiling, arms crossed, in a suit and tie.] ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 5:38 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network ; shelleyhaven techpotential.net ; Karen McCall Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text And now I?ve tested with AI: Copilot: Gives the handwritten text, nothing more. ChatGPT: Gives the handwritten text, then explains it. The handwritten text is displayed through a code window that can be quickly copied separate from the explanation. Claude: Gives the handwritten text but is messy and needs additional formatting. It sticks multiple bullet points into one line. Perplexity: Gives the handwritten text and explanation but gets some of the latin font wrong. Gemini: Gives the handwritten text and explanation, one of the better solutions. I?ll have to test with some math equations next, then some chemistry lectures. Oh look! An email came in and I see Aaron from Top Tech is stating the same thing. ? Best, Joshua From: athen-list > on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:57?PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net >, Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Cc: Joshua Hori >, Karlen Communications >, Travis Roth > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list > wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 441256 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 15 12:10:15 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Kamran Rasul via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> <004501dbabe9$4a0a99e0$de1fcda0$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: Have you tried giving this a try? Although I cannot speak for math content. https://www.handwritingocr.com/ [Johns Hopkins University logo] Kamran Rasul, MEd. Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS) Phone: 410-516-1167 E-mail: krasul1@jhu.edu Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G 3400 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218 Schedule a meeting with Kamran From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2025 7:49 PM To: enews@toptechtidbits.com; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' ; 'shelleyhaven techpotential.net' ; 'Karen McCall' Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text External Email - Use Caution We have https://aggievideo.ucdavis.edu which has many public STEM courses you can test with me. ? Following up on the math tests: Math equations proved to be interesting, but I?m testing with multivariable calculus?Which has math characters most will never see. Here?s a whiteboard pulled from the course: [cid:image004.png@01DBAE18.7884AA50] * Mathpix gets most of it but needs a little readjusting. Just a little. * Gemini 2.5 Pro: gets quite a bit but messes up on the ?notion & def? line, all of it. * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq d instead of \geqslant d * Also has some mathml code showing instead of proper math output. Pops up in different places if regenerating the response. * GPT o3-mini-high: gets almost everything, but leaves out the ?\forall x,y,z?, lumping that last line with the previous ?for all?. It also: * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq d instead of \geqslant * Claude Sonnet 3.7: Sections the equations, but gets is sectioned correctly. * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq instead of \geqslant * Perlexity: Got everything right, with a few minor edits here and there. Less than Mathpix edits. *Shocked pikachu*. * Uses \geq instead of \geqslant * Copilot?tries. It tends to rewrite the equation. * \bar? \vec? We don?t do that here? * So many missing symbols, so many missing characters? \forall = upside down A \geq = greater than or equal to \geqslant = greater than or equal to, slant \bar(x) = x with bar over it \vec(x) = x with arrow over it Best, Joshua From: Top Tech Tidbits > Date: Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 1:27?PM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'shelleyhaven techpotential.net' >, 'Karen McCall' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks so much for the mention Joshua, but I will defer to your review which is much more thorough. We too tested this across all of the large paid models and ChatGPT 4o and Gemini 2.5 Pro consistently performed the best. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP [Aaron Di Blasi, Sr. Project Management Professional, Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd., Publisher, Top Tech Tidbits, Publisher, Access Information News stands smiling, arms crossed, in a suit and tie.] ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 5:38 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network >; shelleyhaven techpotential.net >; Karen McCall > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text And now I?ve tested with AI: Copilot: Gives the handwritten text, nothing more. ChatGPT: Gives the handwritten text, then explains it. The handwritten text is displayed through a code window that can be quickly copied separate from the explanation. Claude: Gives the handwritten text but is messy and needs additional formatting. It sticks multiple bullet points into one line. Perplexity: Gives the handwritten text and explanation but gets some of the latin font wrong. Gemini: Gives the handwritten text and explanation, one of the better solutions. I?ll have to test with some math equations next, then some chemistry lectures. Oh look! An email came in and I see Aaron from Top Tech is stating the same thing. ? Best, Joshua From: athen-list > on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:57?PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net >, Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Cc: Joshua Hori >, Karlen Communications >, Travis Roth > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list > wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 8704 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 441256 bytes Desc: image004.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: image005.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 15 13:35:58 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text In-Reply-To: References: <1600804527.1407244.1744122044081.JavaMail.zimbra@rcn.com> <040801dba8e6$f9ee73a0$edcb5ae0$@travisroth.com> <001501dba94c$94a9b480$bdfd1d80$@karlencommunications.com> <48DA59F2-8C66-498E-A0E1-CE82638CCF6F@TechPotential.net> <004501dbabe9$4a0a99e0$de1fcda0$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: I have not tried them. The pricing seems high for usage, but I would be interested to see if the API is a cheaper solution. Best, Joshua From: Kamran Rasul Date: Tuesday, April 15, 2025 at 12:10?PM To: Joshua Hori , 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' , 'enews@toptechtidbits.com' , 'shelleyhaven techpotential.net' , 'Karen McCall' Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you tried giving this a try? Although I cannot speak for math content. https://www.handwritingocr.com/ [Johns Hopkins University logo] Kamran Rasul, MEd. Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS) Phone: 410-516-1167 E-mail: krasul1@jhu.edu Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G 3400 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218 Schedule a meeting with Kamran From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2025 7:49 PM To: enews@toptechtidbits.com; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' ; 'shelleyhaven techpotential.net' ; 'Karen McCall' Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text External Email - Use Caution We have https://aggievideo.ucdavis.edu which has many public STEM courses you can test with me. ? Following up on the math tests: Math equations proved to be interesting, but I?m testing with multivariable calculus?Which has math characters most will never see. Here?s a whiteboard pulled from the course: [cid:image004.png@01DBAE18.7884AA50] * Mathpix gets most of it but needs a little readjusting. Just a little. * Gemini 2.5 Pro: gets quite a bit but messes up on the ?notion & def? line, all of it. * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq d instead of \geqslant d * Also has some mathml code showing instead of proper math output. Pops up in different places if regenerating the response. * GPT o3-mini-high: gets almost everything, but leaves out the ?\forall x,y,z?, lumping that last line with the previous ?for all?. It also: * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq d instead of \geqslant * Claude Sonnet 3.7: Sections the equations, but gets is sectioned correctly. * Uses \bar(x) instead of \vec(x) * Uses \geq instead of \geqslant * Perlexity: Got everything right, with a few minor edits here and there. Less than Mathpix edits. *Shocked pikachu*. * Uses \geq instead of \geqslant * Copilot?tries. It tends to rewrite the equation. * \bar? \vec? We don?t do that here? * So many missing symbols, so many missing characters? \forall = upside down A \geq = greater than or equal to \geqslant = greater than or equal to, slant \bar(x) = x with bar over it \vec(x) = x with arrow over it Best, Joshua From: Top Tech Tidbits > Date: Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 1:27?PM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'shelleyhaven techpotential.net' >, 'Karen McCall' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks so much for the mention Joshua, but I will defer to your review which is much more thorough. We too tested this across all of the large paid models and ChatGPT 4o and Gemini 2.5 Pro consistently performed the best. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP [Aaron Di Blasi, Sr. Project Management Professional, Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd., Publisher, Top Tech Tidbits, Publisher, Access Information News stands smiling, arms crossed, in a suit and tie.] ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? 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If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 5:38 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network >; shelleyhaven techpotential.net >; Karen McCall > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text And now I?ve tested with AI: Copilot: Gives the handwritten text, nothing more. ChatGPT: Gives the handwritten text, then explains it. The handwritten text is displayed through a code window that can be quickly copied separate from the explanation. Claude: Gives the handwritten text but is messy and needs additional formatting. It sticks multiple bullet points into one line. Perplexity: Gives the handwritten text and explanation but gets some of the latin font wrong. Gemini: Gives the handwritten text and explanation, one of the better solutions. I?ll have to test with some math equations next, then some chemistry lectures. Oh look! An email came in and I see Aaron from Top Tech is stating the same thing. ? Best, Joshua From: athen-list > on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:57?PM To: shelleyhaven techpotential.net >, Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Thanks for providing this explanation, Shelley! I appreciate the detailed comparison between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. I just tested it out in OneNote, you can?t lasso handwriting in images. If an image is taken of a whiteboard with handwriting, it will not work. If you rewrite the handwritten notes, you can lasso that. Best, Joshua From: shelleyhaven techpotential.net > Date: Friday, April 11, 2025 at 1:01?PM To: Karen McCall >, Access Technology Higher ATHEN > Cc: Joshua Hori >, Karlen Communications >, Travis Roth > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I've been following this handwriting OCR thread with great interest. While not a direct answer to Lorraine's original question (converting a PDF of handwritten notes to OCR'd text), here's one other thing to consider relevant to accommodations: there's a difference between handwriting OCR and dynamic handwriting recognition. Handwriting OCR examines the static, after-the-fact image of handwritten text or math and attempts to recognize what the user wrote by analyzing the shapes and making a "best guess" by comparing these shapes with known handwriting samples. The process is similar to the standard OCR we know and (mostly) love. Dynamic handwriting recognition, however, analyzes handwriting in real time (as it's being written) and as such has access to additional information with which to make decisions: the individual strokes used to create the handwriting, the sequence of the strokes, the direction of the writing utensil, the velocity of the writing utensil, pen-up and pen-down movements, and possibly the pressure of the strokes. This produces far more accurate handwriting recognition because it's analyzing "how the image was made", not just "what the image looks like". Dynamic HWR obviously requires a system to capture the handwriting in real time, like a digitizing tablet or touchscreen. OneNote on a touchscreen, Livescribe smartpens, Scribble on iPad with Apple Pencil, and many other apps & devices use dynamic HWR. So in terms of accurately recognizing and converting a student's handwriting to text or math, it is advantageous to employ an accommodation that allows the student to capture their handwriting in real time using a dynamic HWR system. - Shelley _____________________________ Shelley Haven ATP, RET, BSME Assistive Technology Consultant www.TechPotential.net On Apr 11, 2025, at 5:53?AM, Karen McCall via athen-list > wrote: Yes. I had to charge my Surface Pen so used the touch screen to ?write? a sentence. I then used the Lasso tool to select the text I?d written. I tapped on one of the handles of the lasso ?square? and got the toolbar. There is an arrow in the toolbar which I tapped. The last item in the context menu is Ink to Text. It worked perfectly. Even with my handwriting. Once my Surface pen is charged, I?ll try it with that. The way the handwriting tool used to work in OneNote is based on algorithms of thousands of handwriting sample, so it is sort of like word prediction based on the database of handwriting samples. Of course, like voice recognition, it also helps you write better/more legibly as you see the common ?oops, I got that wrong? results if any. So, it tends to train you instead of the other way around. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:13 PM To: Karlen Communications >; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >; 'Travis Roth' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I?ve tried it and couldn?t get it to work, so I abandoned the idea for a while. I then realized later that you need to use the lasso to convert the handwriting to text. So?Did the lasso convert imaged handwriting to text? Joshua From: Karlen Communications > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 5:40?AM To: Joshua Hori >, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' >, 'Travis Roth' > Subject: RE: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Have you checked OneNote?s ability to convert handwriting to text? Not sure it would work on a scanned graphic of both handwriting and print but might be worth a try. I used to use it all the time for note taking. Even with my horrid handwriting, it converted accurately. ?and you?ve just given me a task to test this morning! Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 8:59 PM To: Travis Roth >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text The camera fails and throws errors now but if you hover over it, it will still try to OCR and read it aloud. We used to use SeeingAI back in 2018 to convert handwritten notes into digital text. It worked with good accuracy back then. This is the Image Braille GPT (free): https://chatgpt.com/g/g-fXlS5yyJA-image-braille It?s a little challenging navigating OpenAI with a screenreader since they don?t have ARIA live tags. I find Gemini more accessible to screenreaders. NotebookLM is accessible?with exception to navigating their chat responses. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf of Travis Roth via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 5:34?PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text Hi Joshua, On the Read tab SeeingAI does have a take Picture button which will still show the document view. But I?ve not tried handwriting with it, so if you are saying even the take picture mode is bad at handwriting that is unfortunate. Can you share how I may find/try the Image Braille agent? From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 7:18 PM To: foreigntype@gmail.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network >;lorraine@rcn.com Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text SeeingAI used to convert handwriting to text, but now it just attempts to read it aloud?and it?s not as good as it used to be. That?s a shame. You can upload an image of the handwritten text to AI and have it converted to digital text. Gemini: Best AI for image descriptions and handwritten text. ChatGPT: Creates great images but can go wildly inaccurate unless using the ?Image Braille? GPT. That?s some high-quality system prompting powering that customized GPT. I have video examples of using Gemini and OpenAI on my mobile device to describe lecture content in a LinkedIn article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-musings-bridging-tactile-chemistry-lecture-audio-joshua-hori-kyglc/ Sorry, no video or audio editing tools available. I stream/record on a budget. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list > on behalf offoreigntype@gmail.com via athen-list > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 8:37?AM To: lorraine@rcn.com > Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Handwriting to OCR text I am unaware of any OCR software that can do both handwriting and text. Susan's advice is the best: You'll have to do this in several steps. Use a good text based OCR software (Abbyy FineReader or OmnipagePro) for the text and insert (type up the handwriting manually) separately after removing it (by cleaning up) from the original. No easy button for this one! Wink On Tue, Apr 8, 2025, 7:20 AM > wrote: Wink, It is handwriting on a PDF. It is the other software that I am looking for recommendations on. Thanks Lorraine _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 8704 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 441256 bytes Desc: image004.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: image005.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 15 14:10:27 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No good news. I have now tried both JAWS and NVDA with Firefox, Chrome and Edge. Same problem. It has a ton of keystrokes for moving to different areas of the interface. But you must press those keys when your virtual cursor or browse mode is off. And once you turn the mode back on to actually read, you are then positioned at the top of the page. I think the problem is that the virtual cursor or browse mode is looking at the HTML document model and does not pay attention to the position of the focus when caret browsing mode is on. Web pages in the days of the static web had no cursor. But now, a web app is just like a desktop app; it has focus and apparently the screen readers are unable to track that. But what's weird is that in apps like Office online and google docs they do. Also in web apps like Visual Studio Code and Discord, the focus is also tracked. So are these screen readers writing special scripts and add-ons for specific web-based apps instead of simply supporting the concept of a web-based app? If that's so, that's band-aid access. I wrote to Freedom scientific support, and they said they don't support Perusall, which of course isn't shocking. But as more and more apps transition to being browser based, the screen readers need to do a better job. I really think this app is WCAG compliant with all the keyboard shortcuts and read out loud features it offers. And it has adjustments for fonts and colors and lets you resize all its panels and supports the dyslexic font. So I think the problem is with the screen readers that fail to understand the web is now an operating system. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:54 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: [Athen] Perusall update So the folks at Perusall are very supportive. Even their CTO contacted me about my accessibility issue. I am going to screen share with one of their developers in just a few minutes. Perusall does automatically OCR any document the teacher embeds in its interface. But if it is a low-res image, such as a camera-phone photo of a page, the OCR is lousy. Hence professors really need to put accessible content in to the app. For selecting text, the keyboard user turns on caret browsing mode and selects text with the shift and arrow keys. To annotate (comment) on it) enter is pressed and the user is now in an edit field, able to easily type and correct text, just as if they were editing a discussion in Canvas. Screen reader users need to be sure to toggle the JAWS virtual cursor or the NVDA browse mode off. Mac users need to use Chrome or Firefox because they say, Safari doesn't have caret browsing. And I'd guess VoiceOver users would also need to disable the quick key navigation. Anyway, the problem I believe is really one with the screen readers, as they don't support caret browsing. Once you turn off browse or virtual cursor mode, you get no feedback. I've written to Freedom Scientific, saying this is a broader issue than just one web-based app. Caret browsing should be fully supported with feedback when that cursor is moved and focus changes. The screen readers are stuck in this 20th-century paradigm of the static web page, where you occasionally use a Forms or Focus mode to fill in a form. But the reality now of web-based apps means they need to fully support the browser as if it is an operating system. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 15 14:21:52 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Lissner, L. Scott via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is room for improvement in almost everything, so I am sure screen readers could be better. That said, past experience with Perusall says that it is likely that it too has room for improvement. Deborah, you said it seems WCAG compliant. Is there a credible VPAT. [Block ?0? Logo: The Ohio State University] L. Scott Lissner, Americans With Disabilities Act Coordinator and Section 504 Compliance Officer Civil Rights Compliance Office, Office of University Compliance and Integrity (614) 292-7024(v) (614) 688-3665(fax); Http://ada.osu.edu Give Disability Access Feedback and Report Concerns ?You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to desist from it.? ________________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Date: Tuesday, April 15, 2025 at 5:11?PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Perusall update No good news. I have now tried both JAWS and NVDA with Firefox, Chrome and Edge. Same problem. It has a ton of keystrokes for moving to different areas of the interface. But you must press those keys when your virtual cursor or browse mode is No good news. I have now tried both JAWS and NVDA with Firefox, Chrome and Edge. Same problem. It has a ton of keystrokes for moving to different areas of the interface. But you must press those keys when your virtual cursor or browse mode is off. And once you turn the mode back on to actually read, you are then positioned at the top of the page. I think the problem is that the virtual cursor or browse mode is looking at the HTML document model and does not pay attention to the position of the focus when caret browsing mode is on. Web pages in the days of the static web had no cursor. But now, a web app is just like a desktop app; it has focus and apparently the screen readers are unable to track that. But what?s weird is that in apps like Office online and google docs they do. Also in web apps like Visual Studio Code and Discord, the focus is also tracked. So are these screen readers writing special scripts and add-ons for specific web-based apps instead of simply supporting the concept of a web-based app? If that?s so, that?s band-aid access. I wrote to Freedom scientific support, and they said they don?t support Perusall, which of course isn?t shocking. But as more and more apps transition to being browser based, the screen readers need to do a better job. I really think this app is WCAG compliant with all the keyboard shortcuts and read out loud features it offers. And it has adjustments for fonts and colors and lets you resize all its panels and supports the dyslexic font. So I think the problem is with the screen readers that fail to understand the web is now an operating system. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:54 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: [Athen] Perusall update So the folks at Perusall are very supportive. Even their CTO contacted me about my accessibility issue. I am going to screen share with one of their developers in just a few minutes. Perusall does automatically OCR any document the teacher embeds in its interface. But if it is a low-res image, such as a camera-phone photo of a page, the OCR is lousy. Hence professors really need to put accessible content in to the app. For selecting text, the keyboard user turns on caret browsing mode and selects text with the shift and arrow keys. To annotate (comment) on it) enter is pressed and the user is now in an edit field, able to easily type and correct text, just as if they were editing a discussion in Canvas. Screen reader users need to be sure to toggle the JAWS virtual cursor or the NVDA browse mode off. Mac users need to use Chrome or Firefox because they say, Safari doesn?t have caret browsing. And I?d guess VoiceOver users would also need to disable the quick key navigation. Anyway, the problem I believe is really one with the screen readers, as they don?t support caret browsing. Once you turn off browse or virtual cursor mode, you get no feedback. I?ve written to Freedom Scientific, saying this is a broader issue than just one web-based app. Caret browsing should be fully supported with feedback when that cursor is moved and focus changes. The screen readers are stuck in this 20th-century paradigm of the static web page, where you occasionally use a Forms or Focus mode to fill in a form. But the reality now of web-based apps means they need to fully support the browser as if it is an operating system. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 3628 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 15 18:45:24 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Peter Bossley via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Perusall update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Broadly speaking, no, screen readers are not writing individual scripts to support individual web applications. Doing so would actually be pretty challenging from a technical perspective. The exception to this statement is for installed applications like Microsoft Teams or the "new outlook" which are technically web pages in a self-contained web view packaged as a native windows application. What Microsoft and Google are doing with their respective web applications is making very careful use of role=application, which automatically puts screen readers in passthrough mode which allows the keyboard shortcuts to be pushed to the underlying web application. The challenge with that approach is that the application then has to respond to whatever keyboard input the user sends and the screen reader has to behave as expected. I haven't used Perusall in a long time but I doubt they have the accessibility and web expertise to execute on this model - doing so would require more attention to detail and a close collaboration with an accessibility engineering team than I suspect they have put into place here. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2025 5:10 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Perusall update No good news. I have now tried both JAWS and NVDA with Firefox, Chrome and Edge. Same problem. It has a ton of keystrokes for moving to different areas of the interface. But you must press those keys when your virtual cursor or browse mode is off. And once you turn the mode back on to actually read, you are then positioned at the top of the page. I think the problem is that the virtual cursor or browse mode is looking at the HTML document model and does not pay attention to the position of the focus when caret browsing mode is on. Web pages in the days of the static web had no cursor. But now, a web app is just like a desktop app; it has focus and apparently the screen readers are unable to track that. But what's weird is that in apps like Office online and google docs they do. Also in web apps like Visual Studio Code and Discord, the focus is also tracked. So are these screen readers writing special scripts and add-ons for specific web-based apps instead of simply supporting the concept of a web-based app? If that's so, that's band-aid access. I wrote to Freedom scientific support, and they said they don't support Perusall, which of course isn't shocking. But as more and more apps transition to being browser based, the screen readers need to do a better job. I really think this app is WCAG compliant with all the keyboard shortcuts and read out loud features it offers. And it has adjustments for fonts and colors and lets you resize all its panels and supports the dyslexic font. So I think the problem is with the screen readers that fail to understand the web is now an operating system. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:54 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: [Athen] Perusall update So the folks at Perusall are very supportive. Even their CTO contacted me about my accessibility issue. I am going to screen share with one of their developers in just a few minutes. Perusall does automatically OCR any document the teacher embeds in its interface. But if it is a low-res image, such as a camera-phone photo of a page, the OCR is lousy. Hence professors really need to put accessible content in to the app. For selecting text, the keyboard user turns on caret browsing mode and selects text with the shift and arrow keys. To annotate (comment) on it) enter is pressed and the user is now in an edit field, able to easily type and correct text, just as if they were editing a discussion in Canvas. Screen reader users need to be sure to toggle the JAWS virtual cursor or the NVDA browse mode off. Mac users need to use Chrome or Firefox because they say, Safari doesn't have caret browsing. And I'd guess VoiceOver users would also need to disable the quick key navigation. Anyway, the problem I believe is really one with the screen readers, as they don't support caret browsing. Once you turn off browse or virtual cursor mode, you get no feedback. I've written to Freedom Scientific, saying this is a broader issue than just one web-based app. Caret browsing should be fully supported with feedback when that cursor is moved and focus changes. The screen readers are stuck in this 20th-century paradigm of the static web page, where you occasionally use a Forms or Focus mode to fill in a form. But the reality now of web-based apps means they need to fully support the browser as if it is an operating system. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 07:38:23 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Philip Kiff via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: <97f911f3-db88-d011-f576-03d2cdded331@d4k.ca> Folks who were discussing how to configure Reading Order (not tag order) in InDesign last week may want to check out a new InDesign script provided (for free!) by Chad Chelius and Keith Gilbert. The script is intended to automate the process of adding everything in your Layers panel to your Articles panel in the correct order - so you don't have to repeat the process of ordering your content first for tag order and then re-doing it again for reading order. More detail and a link to the download is available in Chad's post "Setting the Order for PDF Files in InDesign" posted to LinkedIn on March 26, 2025: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/ Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of the mailing list. In this case, while some folks found ChatGPT content to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original question. Besides which, ChatGPT is just going to regurgitate what it finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2025-04-07 5:51 p.m., Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list wrote: > Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron! > > Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also > reached out via WebAIM. > > What I found and trialed?echoed the Chat GPT note. > > To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to > adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what > will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read last. So > yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a > correct Order panel for me in Acrobat. > > I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021! > > Thanks again! > > P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:*?Top Tech Tidbits > *Sent:*?Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM > *To:*?'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; > 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin > *Subject:*?RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not > tag order) > > [snip] > > *From:*?athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Steve Green via athen-list > *Sent:*?Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM > *To:*?Hayman, Douglass ; Access Technology Higher > Education Network ; Eckelberry, Robin > > *Subject:*?Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not > tag order) > > In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create > PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: > > * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in > which objects are created. > * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it > back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading > order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each > object in turn: > o Select the object. > o Press Ctrl+X to delete it. > o Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. > o Reposition it if necessary. > o However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. > > It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. > It if has, do let me know. > > Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this > should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. > Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but > this can be really difficult. > > Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all > the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the > paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s > faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. > > Steve Green > > Managing Director > > Test Partners Ltd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 08:23:32 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Steve Green via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: <97f911f3-db88-d011-f576-03d2cdded331@d4k.ca> References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> <97f911f3-db88-d011-f576-03d2cdded331@d4k.ca> Message-ID: We don?t usually get involved with the creation of source documents, but following the earlier posts I looked at the InDesign files for some projects. The contents of the Layers panels made no sense. Some documents had all the content on one layer. Other documents didn?t have any content in the Layers panel, while in others only part of the content was in the Layers panel. Can anyone explain this? Do you need to add content to the Layers panel or should it be automatic? I totally agree with Philip?s comments regarding ChatGPT. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: Philip Kiff Sent: 16 April 2025 15:38 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Cc: Eckelberry, Robin ; Steve Green ; 'Hayman, Douglass' ; enews@toptechtidbits.com Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Folks who were discussing how to configure Reading Order (not tag order) in InDesign last week may want to check out a new InDesign script provided (for free!) by Chad Chelius and Keith Gilbert. The script is intended to automate the process of adding everything in your Layers panel to your Articles panel in the correct order - so you don't have to repeat the process of ordering your content first for tag order and then re-doing it again for reading order. More detail and a link to the download is available in Chad's post "Setting the Order for PDF Files in InDesign" posted to LinkedIn on March 26, 2025: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/ Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of the mailing list. In this case, while some folks found ChatGPT content to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original question. Besides which, ChatGPT is just going to regurgitate what it finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2025-04-07 5:51 p.m., Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list wrote: Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron! Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note. To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat. I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021! Thanks again! P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. ________________________________ From: Top Tech Tidbits Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM To: 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) [snip] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM To: Hayman, Douglass ; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 09:48:06 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Accessing google docs with a screen reader Message-ID: I wrote this for a volunteer job I took on and this is the latest revision. It's fine to share it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 12:03:42 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> <97f911f3-db88-d011-f576-03d2cdded331@d4k.ca> Message-ID: <003801dbaf02$4646ebd0$d2d4c370$@toptechtidbits.com> Regarding output (or in this case, input) from ChatGPT, I deeply and wholeheartedly disagree with your assessments that AI cannot provide current, focused advice from experts like yourselves, especially when the archives for this list, and many others like it, are open, available and have very likely been indexed by all of the large LLMS many times over. Why would you not want to consider these additional insights? Insights that have already proven valuable to several readers of this list on several different occasions. Limiting the flow of possible information does not seem like a wise academic decision in my experience. But, with that said, this is not my list, and I very much want to respect the wishes of the people who use it. Therefore, I will refrain from providing any information generated by artificial intelligence going forward. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: Steve Green Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 11:24 AM To: Philip Kiff ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Cc: Eckelberry, Robin ; 'Hayman, Douglass' ; enews@toptechtidbits.com Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) We don?t usually get involved with the creation of source documents, but following the earlier posts I looked at the InDesign files for some projects. The contents of the Layers panels made no sense. Some documents had all the content on one layer. Other documents didn?t have any content in the Layers panel, while in others only part of the content was in the Layers panel. Can anyone explain this? Do you need to add content to the Layers panel or should it be automatic? I totally agree with Philip?s comments regarding ChatGPT. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: Philip Kiff > Sent: 16 April 2025 15:38 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Cc: Eckelberry, Robin >; Steve Green >; 'Hayman, Douglass' >; enews@toptechtidbits.com Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Folks who were discussing how to configure Reading Order (not tag order) in InDesign last week may want to check out a new InDesign script provided (for free!) by Chad Chelius and Keith Gilbert. The script is intended to automate the process of adding everything in your Layers panel to your Articles panel in the correct order - so you don't have to repeat the process of ordering your content first for tag order and then re-doing it again for reading order. More detail and a link to the download is available in Chad's post "Setting the Order for PDF Files in InDesign" posted to LinkedIn on March 26, 2025: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/ Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of the mailing list. In this case, while some folks found ChatGPT content to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original question. Besides which, ChatGPT is just going to regurgitate what it finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2025-04-07 5:51 p.m., Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list wrote: Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron! Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note. To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat. I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021! Thanks again! P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. _____ From: Top Tech Tidbits Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM To: 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) [snip] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM To: Hayman, Douglass ; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 13:36:15 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Philip Kiff via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: <003801dbaf02$4646ebd0$d2d4c370$@toptechtidbits.com> References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> <97f911f3-db88-d011-f576-03d2cdded331@d4k.ca> <003801dbaf02$4646ebd0$d2d4c370$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Aaron. I'm not sure it will be useful for us to debate the relative merits of posting content generated by LLMs on this mailing list. I have lots more I could say about it! But it's not my list either, and I'm no longer involved in academia, so while I wanted to give my 2 cents, I also defer to the rest of the list. Phil. On 2025-04-16 3:03 p.m., Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list wrote: > > Regarding output (or in this case, input) from ChatGPT, I deeply and > wholeheartedly disagree with your assessments that AI cannot provide > current, focused advice from experts like yourselves, especially when > the archives for this list, and many others like it, are open, > available and have very likely been indexed by all of the large LLMS > many times over. Why would you not want to consider these additional > insights? Insights that have already proven valuable to several > readers of this list on several different occasions. Limiting the flow > of possible information does not seem like a wise academic decision in > my experience. But, with that said, this is not my list, and I very > much want to respect the wishes of the people who use it. Therefore, I > will refrain from providing any information generated by artificial > intelligence going forward. > > ** > > *Aaron Di Blasi, **PMP* __ > > > [snip] > > *From:*Steve Green > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2025 11:24 AM > *To:* Philip Kiff ; Access Technology Higher Education > Network > *Cc:* Eckelberry, Robin ; 'Hayman, > Douglass' ; enews@toptechtidbits.com > *Subject:* RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not > tag order) > > [snip] > > I totally agree with Philip?s comments regarding ChatGPT. > > Steve Green > > Managing Director > > Test Partners Ltd > > *From:* Philip Kiff > *Sent:* 16 April 2025 15:38 > *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network > > *Cc:* Eckelberry, Robin ; Steve Green > ; 'Hayman, Douglass' > ; enews@toptechtidbits.com > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not > tag order) > > > [snip] > > Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions > into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists > like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of > the mailing list. In this case, while some folks found ChatGPT content > to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to > distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and > therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original > question. Besides which, ChatGPT is just going to regurgitate what it > finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from > experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the > WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents. > > Phil. > > Philip Kiff > D4K Communications > > ?[snip] > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 13:40:50 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In-Reply-To: <003801dbaf02$4646ebd0$d2d4c370$@toptechtidbits.com> References: <001901dba4c8$05dcea20$1196be60$@toptechtidbits.com> <97f911f3-db88-d011-f576-03d2cdded331@d4k.ca> <003801dbaf02$4646ebd0$d2d4c370$@toptechtidbits.com> Message-ID: Philip is correct in that using transformers like ChatGPT may introduce incorrect responses, especially since it?s been fed decades old data, but I would like to point out that AI agents do not have this issue. With AI agents, I could give it highly detailed instructions and feed it data that will focus its suggestions, but it?s all stuck within a chat window and I would still need to perform the work. Transformers are the ADHD models of AI. They?ve been fed too much data and sometimes give incorrect responses that were relevant 5 years ago. AI Agents are the ADD/Autistic models of AI. They hyperfocus on subjects. Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly From: athen-list on behalf of Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 12:06?PM To: 'Steve Green' , 'Philip Kiff' , 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Regarding output (or in this case, input) from ChatGPT, I deeply and wholeheartedly disagree with your assessments that AI cannot provide current, focused advice from experts like yourselves, especially when the archives for this list, and many others like it, are open, available and have very likely been indexed by all of the large LLMS many times over. Why would you not want to consider these additional insights? Insights that have already proven valuable to several readers of this list on several different occasions. Limiting the flow of possible information does not seem like a wise academic decision in my experience. But, with that said, this is not my list, and I very much want to respect the wishes of the people who use it. Therefore, I will refrain from providing any information generated by artificial intelligence going forward. Aaron Di Blasi, PMP [Aaron Di Blasi, Sr. Project Management Professional, Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd., Publisher, Top Tech Tidbits, Publisher, Access Information News stands smiling, arms crossed, in a suit and tie.] ?The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.? ? PR Director (2024-Present) AT-Newswire Access Technology's Digital Newswire https://at-newswire.com ? Publisher (2024-Present) AI-Weekly The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence https://ai-weekly.ai ? Publisher (2022-Present) Access Information News The Week's News in Access Information https://accessinformationnews.com ? Publisher (2020-Present) Top Tech Tidbits The Week's News in Access Technology https://toptechtidbits.com ? Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present) Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd. https://mvsltd.com ? Certified: Digital Marketing Associate, Meta Certified (2022 - Present) Social Marketing Professional, Hootsuite Certified (2020 - Present) Email Marketing Professional, Constant Contact Certified (2019 - Present) Specializing in: Digital Strategy and Content Marketing Social Media Advertising Online Fundraising ADA, WCAG and Section 508 Compliance Website: https://mvsltd.com ? Email: ad@mvsltd.com ? Toll Free: +1 (855) 578-6660?? Schedule A Meeting: https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi News: https://mvsltd.com/news Services: https://mvsltd.com/services Testimonials: https://mvsltd.com/testimonials Facebook: https://mvsltd.com/facebook X (Formerly Twitter): https://mvsltd.com/x LinkedIn: https://mvsltd.com/linkedin Instagram: https://mvsltd.com/instagram YouTube: https://mvsltd.com/youtube Google: https://mvsltd.com/google CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any, are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences. If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer. From: Steve Green Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 11:24 AM To: Philip Kiff ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Cc: Eckelberry, Robin ; 'Hayman, Douglass' ; enews@toptechtidbits.com Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) We don?t usually get involved with the creation of source documents, but following the earlier posts I looked at the InDesign files for some projects. The contents of the Layers panels made no sense. Some documents had all the content on one layer. Other documents didn?t have any content in the Layers panel, while in others only part of the content was in the Layers panel. Can anyone explain this? Do you need to add content to the Layers panel or should it be automatic? I totally agree with Philip?s comments regarding ChatGPT. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: Philip Kiff > Sent: 16 April 2025 15:38 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Cc: Eckelberry, Robin >; Steve Green >; 'Hayman, Douglass' >; enews@toptechtidbits.com Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) Folks who were discussing how to configure Reading Order (not tag order) in InDesign last week may want to check out a new InDesign script provided (for free!) by Chad Chelius and Keith Gilbert. The script is intended to automate the process of adding everything in your Layers panel to your Articles panel in the correct order - so you don't have to repeat the process of ordering your content first for tag order and then re-doing it again for reading order. More detail and a link to the download is available in Chad's post "Setting the Order for PDF Files in InDesign" posted to LinkedIn on March 26, 2025: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/ Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of the mailing list. In this case, while some folks found ChatGPT content to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original question. Besides which, ChatGPT is just going to regurgitate what it finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2025-04-07 5:51 p.m., Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list wrote: Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron! Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note. To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat. I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021! Thanks again! P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. ________________________________ From: Top Tech Tidbits Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM To: 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) [snip] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green via athen-list Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM To: Hayman, Douglass ; Access Technology Higher Education Network ; Eckelberry, Robin Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order) In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following: * The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created. * It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn: * Select the object. * Press Ctrl+X to delete it. * Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in. * Reposition it if necessary. * However, this may break the order in the Articles panel. It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know. Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult. Alternatively, you can use Acrobat?s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it?s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 94349 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 16 15:46:45 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Lucy Greco via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Lucy is retiring Message-ID: Hello: I have decided to retire after 20 years at Berkeley. I will be hosting a zoom event Wednesday May 14 at 12 Pm PDT. Please join me for a short presentation where Jill Wolters will be interviewing me and then we will hold an open mic for any one to ask questions or comment. Looking forward to seeing all of you there! You can register at the following link. https://berkeley.zoom.us/meeting/register/dKwQgPJPR0aoBzZM-Ckbeg Lucy Berkeley IT Lucy Greco, Web Accessibility Evangelist Campus IT Experience Phone: (510) 289-6008 | Email: lgreco@berkeley.edu | We champion diversity. We act with integrity. We deliver. We innovate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 17 05:19:04 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karen McCall via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] PDF Remediators Research Survey Reminder Message-ID: Morning Everyone! PDF Remediator's Research Survey This ongoing research is for those in organizations, academic institutions, or government agencies remediating PDFs to make them accessible for those with disabilities. https://forms.office.com/r/4KU5cGzwFX This research survey closes May 2, 2025 Please share the link with anyone interested in participating in the research. Cheers, Karen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 18 11:46:38 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Ali Steenis via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Resources for Physics Drawings with Limited Hand Dexterity? Message-ID: Hello all, We have a student in a physics class who is struggling with the drawings required for homework due to limited hand dexterity. She can write using a pen or stylus but the precision required with drawings is proving to be difficult. Are there any digital drawing platforms or other assistive tech that could make this more accessible for her? Thanks so much in advance! Warmly, Ali Steenis Pronouns: she/hers Alternative Formats Access Specialist, Disability Resource Center (DRC) 3000 Landerholm Circle SE, Room U001 Bellevue, WA 98007 Phone: (425)-564-2605 TTY: (425)-564-6189 FAX: (425)-564-5110 drc@bellevuecollege.edu www.bellevuecollege.edu/drc This email and any files transmitted may contain confidential information as protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), 20 USC ? 1232g and/or Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ? 2510-2521. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution is prohibited. Furthermore, if you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by telephone or return e-mail and completely delete this message from your system. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 18 12:09:45 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Sicily Stump via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have not used these with a student yet, but perhaps digital graph paper and Desmos geometry tool may be a start? Best, Sicily Stump, MSW They/Them/Theirs ( Mx. as an honorific) Assistant Director, Disability Services Delaware County Community College Sstump1@dccc.edu 610-359-5229 ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 18, 2025 3:00 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 **External Email** Send athen-list mailing list submissions to athen-list@u.washington.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu You can reach the person managing the list at athen-list-owner@mailman12.u.washington.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of athen-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Resources for Physics Drawings with Limited Hand Dexterity? (Ali Steenis via athen-list) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 18:46:38 +0000 From: Ali Steenis via athen-list To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Resources for Physics Drawings with Limited Hand Dexterity? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello all, We have a student in a physics class who is struggling with the drawings required for homework due to limited hand dexterity. She can write using a pen or stylus but the precision required with drawings is proving to be difficult. Are there any digital drawing platforms or other assistive tech that could make this more accessible for her? Thanks so much in advance! Warmly, Ali Steenis Pronouns: she/hers Alternative Formats Access Specialist, Disability Resource Center (DRC) 3000 Landerholm Circle SE, Room U001 Bellevue, WA 98007 Phone: (425)-564-2605 TTY: (425)-564-6189 FAX: (425)-564-5110 drc@bellevuecollege.edu www.bellevuecollege.edu/drc> This email and any files transmitted may contain confidential information as protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), 20 USC ? 1232g and/or Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ? 2510-2521. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution is prohibited. Furthermore, if you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by telephone or return e-mail and completely delete this message from your system. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list ------------------------------ End of athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 ******************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 18 12:15:23 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karthikeyan, Ramya via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If the student can use a stylus, maybe they can use the drawing tools design softwares like in Adobe Illustrator, Procreate etc. Ramya Karthikeyan Alternative Format Specialist UCLA Center for Accessible Education 310-825-1501 (CAE line) http://www.cae.ucla.edu/ ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Sicily Stump via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 18, 2025 12:09 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu ; athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu Subject: Re: [Athen] athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 I have not used these with a student yet, but perhaps digital graph paper and Desmos geometry tool may be a start? Best, Sicily Stump, MSW They/Them/Theirs ( Mx. as an honorific) Assistant Director, Disability Services Delaware County Community College Sstump1@dccc.edu 610-359-5229 ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of via athen-list Sent: Friday, April 18, 2025 3:00 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 **External Email** Send athen-list mailing list submissions to athen-list@u.washington.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu You can reach the person managing the list at athen-list-owner@mailman12.u.washington.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of athen-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Resources for Physics Drawings with Limited Hand Dexterity? (Ali Steenis via athen-list) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 18:46:38 +0000 From: Ali Steenis via athen-list To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Resources for Physics Drawings with Limited Hand Dexterity? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello all, We have a student in a physics class who is struggling with the drawings required for homework due to limited hand dexterity. She can write using a pen or stylus but the precision required with drawings is proving to be difficult. Are there any digital drawing platforms or other assistive tech that could make this more accessible for her? Thanks so much in advance! Warmly, Ali Steenis Pronouns: she/hers Alternative Formats Access Specialist, Disability Resource Center (DRC) 3000 Landerholm Circle SE, Room U001 Bellevue, WA 98007 Phone: (425)-564-2605 TTY: (425)-564-6189 FAX: (425)-564-5110 drc@bellevuecollege.edu www.bellevuecollege.edu/drc> This email and any files transmitted may contain confidential information as protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), 20 USC ? 1232g and/or Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ? 2510-2521. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution is prohibited. Furthermore, if you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by telephone or return e-mail and completely delete this message from your system. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list ------------------------------ End of athen-list Digest, Vol 231, Issue 16 ******************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 21 07:41:56 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Aneesha Aslam via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] The best AI tools for note taking - Online session Message-ID: Hello everyone, I'm delivering a session on The best AI tools for note taking, and wanted to share the details. *During this session, we'll explore:* - How to seamlessly record lectures and discussions across web and mobile platforms to ensure students don't miss a thing. - How to generate instant, accurate AI outlines from recordings, which can significantly enhance study efficiency. - The benefits of providing and utilizing real time live captions to improve comprehension for all learners. - Ways to enable personalized note taking through diverse tools like labels, images, and handwritten notes to cater to different learning styles. This learning session will take place via Zoom tomorrow, Tuesday, April 22nd at 12pm ET/ 11am CT. You can find out more information and register here - https://glean.co/events/the-best-ai-tools-for-diverse-note-taking Thanks, Aneesha -- *Aneesha Aslam *(she/her) Senior Marketing Executive aneesha.aslam@glean.co -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 24 12:18:36 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Tisha L. Marzewski via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] 2025 ASC Virtual Conference Sessions are Here! Message-ID: The 2025 ASC Sessions are here! View the amazing lineup of sessions including an afternoon AI Focused General Session and register for this incredible virtual conference today! Join us on June 13, 2025, for our 8th annual virtual conference dedicated to advancing accessibility in education and professional spaces. Whether you're an educator, an industry professional, or just passionate about accessibility, Accessibility Summer Camp (ASC) offers something for everyone. Our one-day virtual event offers a wide range of topics led by experts, ranging from digital accessibility and inclusive teaching practices to software tutorials and creating a culture of accessibility. There is a $15 registration fee for this year?s event. This fee helps cover event costs and ensures we can continue offering Accessibility Summer Camp each year. For step-by-step instructions to Enroll, Pay, and Register, download and follow the Registration Guide. Click on the following link to reach the Registration Page. Tisha L Marzewski | Arkansas State University-Beebe tlmarzewski@asub.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 24 12:19:40 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Brandy Retzlaff via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] 2025 ASC Virtual Conference Sessions are Here! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Fri Apr 25 10:00:28 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Lucy Greco via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] looking for a low vision user to talk with about one line of code overlays Message-ID: hello: i am working on a blog post write now about the dreded overlays but would like to talk with a low vition user and or a dragon user to understand how these overlays interact with other access tech that i do not personally use thanks lucy Berkeley IT Lucy Greco, Web Accessibility Evangelist Campus IT Experience Phone: (510) 289-6008 | Email: lgreco@berkeley.edu | We champion diversity. We act with integrity. We deliver. We innovate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 07:11:44 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karen McCall via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] PDF Remediators Research Survey Closes Friday May 2. Message-ID: PDF Remediators Survey closes May 2025. There's still time for your voice to be heard! https://forms.office.com/r/4KU5cGzwFX Cheers, Karen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 08:46:14 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question Message-ID: The answer is probably no, but here's the situation. A long time ago I had a Canon high speed scanner, DR 50 something. I think it was a DR5090, but I'm not entirely sure. When Windows 7 came out, there were no longer drivers that worked with it, though the scanner itself worked fine. So I convinced my department to spend another $7,000 on a DR 8090 scanner which is still working fine. But Windows 10 came out, again, no drivers supported it. So I hid my Windows 7 PC under my desk, even though we had strict rules to surplus all our old computers due to Windows 7 no longer being updated. Five years later, and if I still want a high-speed scanner that works with modern Windows 11, I'm going to have to beg again. And it is silly, because this scanner still works just fine. Also the college wants to avoid spending money it does not need to spend. So I continue to hide the PC controlling this scanner and wonder if anyone has a better solution. I did try running the scanners in a VM, both when Windows XP became deprecated and after that Windows 7, but the drivers would not communicate with the virtual machine. If anyone has had luck doing this, let me know. With such an expensive scanner, I'm disappointed that Canon has refused twice to keep its drivers updated for modern operating systems. I know it is in their best interest to sell new models, but they could have sold new drivers for a few bucks and kept cash flow going that way as well. I worry a little about continuing to run Windows 7 just so I can use this scanner, but I also don't want to explain why I want a new one when this one works fine. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 08:52:26 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Susan Kelmer via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scanner technology has come a long way, and some older Canon scanners (that are not horribly pricey) are working just fine with updated Windows version. I still use and absolutely swear by the Canon ImageFormula series of scanners. Sheet feed, have OCR built in, and run just seamlessly for me. These scanners are now 10 years old or so, but have survived every operating system upgrade I've gone through with them. I'm using a Canon DRM160. Those older Canon 5080s were so picky about operating systems and just did not upgrade well to new operating systems, but I'm here to tell you that Canon does indeed make scanners that will. Bonus: they have a smaller footprint so don't take up hardly any room on my desk. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Health and Wellness Services T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image001.png@01DBB8EC.68899000] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:46 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question [External email - use caution] The answer is probably no, but here's the situation. A long time ago I had a Canon high speed scanner, DR 50 something. I think it was a DR5090, but I'm not entirely sure. When Windows 7 came out, there were no longer drivers that worked with it, though the scanner itself worked fine. So I convinced my department to spend another $7,000 on a DR 8090 scanner which is still working fine. But Windows 10 came out, again, no drivers supported it. So I hid my Windows 7 PC under my desk, even though we had strict rules to surplus all our old computers due to Windows 7 no longer being updated. Five years later, and if I still want a high-speed scanner that works with modern Windows 11, I'm going to have to beg again. And it is silly, because this scanner still works just fine. Also the college wants to avoid spending money it does not need to spend. So I continue to hide the PC controlling this scanner and wonder if anyone has a better solution. I did try running the scanners in a VM, both when Windows XP became deprecated and after that Windows 7, but the drivers would not communicate with the virtual machine. If anyone has had luck doing this, let me know. With such an expensive scanner, I'm disappointed that Canon has refused twice to keep its drivers updated for modern operating systems. I know it is in their best interest to sell new models, but they could have sold new drivers for a few bucks and kept cash flow going that way as well. I worry a little about continuing to run Windows 7 just so I can use this scanner, but I also don't want to explain why I want a new one when this one works fine. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 09:06:12 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Will Pines via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was using a 3090 with Windows 7/10 with a generic driver. I was able to get Capture Perfect to work but with only Batch Scan and single page scan.. none of the extended menus that worked with its original drivers and software. We could no longer get parts for the 3090 (rollers, sensors, etc.). Department purchased DRG-2110. I am running the 2110 on Windows 10 with its native Capture software with no problems. Best, WILL PINES, Disability Specialist Accessible Technology Specialist Student Disability Resource Center he/him/his University of California, Riverside 900 University Avenue 1228 Student Services Building Riverside, CA 92521 Phone: 951-827-3861 | Email: wilbert.pines@ucr.edu Schedule an Appointment SDRC Web | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter "A mind stretched by new experiences will never go back to its original dimensions." [UC Riverside Student Disability Resource Center logo] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 8:52 AM To: Deborah Armstrong ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Canon scanner question Scanner technology has come a long way, and some older Canon scanners (that are not horribly pricey) are working just fine with updated Windows version. I still use and absolutely swear by the Canon ImageFormula series of scanners. Sheet feed, have OCR built in, and run just seamlessly for me. These scanners are now 10 years old or so, but have survived every operating system upgrade I've gone through with them. I'm using a Canon DRM160. Those older Canon 5080s were so picky about operating systems and just did not upgrade well to new operating systems, but I'm here to tell you that Canon does indeed make scanners that will. Bonus: they have a smaller footprint so don't take up hardly any room on my desk. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Health and Wellness Services T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image003.png@01DBB8E5.6A8C4200] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:46 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question [External email - use caution] The answer is probably no, but here's the situation. A long time ago I had a Canon high speed scanner, DR 50 something. I think it was a DR5090, but I'm not entirely sure. When Windows 7 came out, there were no longer drivers that worked with it, though the scanner itself worked fine. So I convinced my department to spend another $7,000 on a DR 8090 scanner which is still working fine. But Windows 10 came out, again, no drivers supported it. So I hid my Windows 7 PC under my desk, even though we had strict rules to surplus all our old computers due to Windows 7 no longer being updated. Five years later, and if I still want a high-speed scanner that works with modern Windows 11, I'm going to have to beg again. And it is silly, because this scanner still works just fine. Also the college wants to avoid spending money it does not need to spend. So I continue to hide the PC controlling this scanner and wonder if anyone has a better solution. I did try running the scanners in a VM, both when Windows XP became deprecated and after that Windows 7, but the drivers would not communicate with the virtual machine. If anyone has had luck doing this, let me know. With such an expensive scanner, I'm disappointed that Canon has refused twice to keep its drivers updated for modern operating systems. I know it is in their best interest to sell new models, but they could have sold new drivers for a few bucks and kept cash flow going that way as well. I worry a little about continuing to run Windows 7 just so I can use this scanner, but I also don't want to explain why I want a new one when this one works fine. --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 8101 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 09:52:25 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Xanth King via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, I have found that these older scanner series will work with older drivers on newer machines, but the company doesn't maintain the 'driver signing' which keeps them "secure". As far as I can tell, the protocols work exactly the same despite the newer operating systems. However, when you install the Windows 7 driver, even if you confirm that you are okay with the driver being unsigned, Windows 10/11 security will not allow an installation. That is, it will behave as though the installation worked, but nothing will happen. This is because you have to turn off driver signature enforcement. This requires administrative access to your computer, so you will likely need help from IT unless you have gotten admin privileges. If you do, you need to reboot into advanced startup (hold down shift when you hit restart) https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2294-boot-advanced-startup-options-windows-10-a.html and Disable driver signature enforcement https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/156602-how-enable-disable-driver-signature-enforcement-windows-10-a.html (when is only temporary for the next time the computer goes into Windows.) Then you can install the Windows 7 driver from Canon's website. Run it as administrator. If it doesn't work, try installing it in compatibility mode. Also, it could be a lack of google-fu, but I can't find a DR 8090 driver. Presuming this is the 9080c, here is the page with the driver. You can switch the operating system to Windows 7 and get it there. https://www.usa.canon.com/support/p/imageformula-dr-9080c-color-production-scanner?srsltid=AfmBOooxHiaWvZTRtSQE6eMhTj_hgZKsDXoT7Bz2BBTosbXq4GtjPS51 Hope this helps. If this was unclear, feel free to shoot me any questions. *Xanth King* Accessible Formats Technology Specialist Pronouns: They/Them/Theirs Wheeler Hall, Basement Level, Room 22 On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:06?AM Will Pines via athen-list < athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > I was using a 3090 with Windows 7/10 with a generic driver. I was able to > get Capture Perfect to work but with only Batch Scan and single page scan.. > none of the extended menus that worked with its original drivers and > software. We could no longer get parts for the 3090 (rollers, sensors, > etc.). > > Department purchased DRG-2110. I am running the 2110 on Windows 10 with > its native Capture software with no problems. > > > > Best, > > *WILL PINES*, *Disability Specialist* > > Accessible Technology Specialist > > Student Disability Resource Center > > *he/him/his* > > > > University of California, Riverside > > 900 University Avenue > > 1228 Student Services Building > > Riverside, CA 92521 > > Phone: 951-827-3861 | Email: wilbert.pines@ucr.edu > > > > Schedule an Appointment > > > > SDRC Web | Facebook > | Instagram > | Twitter > > > > > ?A mind stretched by new experiences will never go back to its original > dimensions.? > > [image: UC Riverside Student Disability Resource Center logo] > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Susan Kelmer via athen-list > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 8:52 AM > *To:* Deborah Armstrong ; Access Technology > Higher Education Network > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Canon scanner question > > > > Scanner technology has come a long way, and some older Canon scanners > (that are not horribly pricey) are working just fine with updated Windows > version. > > > > I still use and absolutely swear by the Canon ImageFormula series of > scanners. Sheet feed, have OCR built in, and run just seamlessly for me. > These scanners are now 10 years old or so, but have survived every > operating system upgrade I?ve gone through with them. I?m using a Canon > DRM160. > > > > Those older Canon 5080s were so picky about operating systems and just did > not upgrade well to new operating systems, but I?m here to tell you that > Canon does indeed make scanners that will. Bonus: they have a smaller > footprint so don?t take up hardly any room on my desk. > > > > *Susan Kelmer * > > Alternate Format Production Program Manager > > Disability Services > > Health and Wellness Services > > *T* 303 735 4836 > > *www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices > * > > > > > > > > *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this > message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please > notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Deborah Armstrong via athen-list > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:46 AM > *To:* 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> > *Subject:* [Athen] Canon scanner question > > > > [External email - use caution] > > > > The answer is probably no, but here?s the situation. A long time ago I had > a Canon high speed scanner, DR 50 something. I think it was a DR5090, but > I?m not entirely sure. When Windows 7 came out, there were no longer > drivers that worked with it, though the scanner itself worked fine. > > So I convinced my department to spend another $7,000 on a DR 8090 scanner > which is still working fine. > > But Windows 10 came out, again, no drivers supported it. > > So I hid my Windows 7 PC under my desk, even though we had strict rules to > surplus all our old computers due to Windows 7 no longer being updated. > > Five years later, and if I still want a high-speed scanner that works with > modern Windows 11, I?m going to have to beg again. And it is silly, because > this scanner still works just fine. Also the college wants to avoid > spending money it does not need to spend. > > So I continue to hide the PC controlling this scanner and wonder if anyone > has a better solution. > > I did try running the scanners in a VM, both when Windows XP became > deprecated and after that Windows 7, but the drivers would not communicate > with the virtual machine. If anyone has had luck doing this, let me know. > > With such an expensive scanner, I?m disappointed that Canon has refused > twice to keep its drivers updated for modern operating systems. I know it > is in their best interest to sell new models, but they could have sold new > drivers for a few bucks and kept cash flow going that way as well. > > I worry a little about continuing to run Windows 7 just so I can use this > scanner, but I also don?t want to explain why I want a new one when this > one works fine. > > > > --Debee > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu > http://mailman22.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 8101 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 10:29:39 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Deborah Armstrong via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This was very clear and the scanner model is correct, I was just working remotely and couldn?t remember the exact model. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Xanth King via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:52 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Canon scanner question Hello, I have found that these older scanner series will work with older drivers on newer machines, but the company doesn't maintain the 'driver signing' which keeps them "secure". As far as I can tell, the protocols work exactly the same despite the newer operating systems. However, when you install the Windows 7 driver, even if you confirm that you are okay with the driver being unsigned, Windows 10/11 security will not allow an installation. That is, it will behave as though the installation worked, but nothing will happen. This is because you have to turn off driver signature enforcement. This requires administrative access to your computer, so you will likely need help from IT unless you have gotten admin privileges. If you do, you need to reboot into advanced startup (hold down shift when you hit restart) https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2294-boot-advanced-startup-options-windows-10-a.html and Disable driver signature enforcement https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/156602-how-enable-disable-driver-signature-enforcement-windows-10-a.html (when is only temporary for the next time the computer goes into Windows.) Then you can install the Windows 7 driver from Canon's website. Run it as administrator. If it doesn't work, try installing it in compatibility mode. Also, it could be a lack of google-fu, but I can't find a DR 8090 driver. Presuming this is the 9080c, here is the page with the driver. You can switch the operating system to Windows 7 and get it there. https://www.usa.canon.com/support/p/imageformula-dr-9080c-color-production-scanner?srsltid=AfmBOooxHiaWvZTRtSQE6eMhTj_hgZKsDXoT7Bz2BBTosbXq4GtjPS51 Hope this helps. If this was unclear, feel free to shoot me any questions. Xanth King Accessible Formats Technology Specialist Pronouns: They/Them/Theirs Wheeler Hall, Basement Level, Room 22 On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:06?AM Will Pines via athen-list > wrote: I was using a 3090 with Windows 7/10 with a generic driver. I was able to get Capture Perfect to work but with only Batch Scan and single page scan.. none of the extended menus that worked with its original drivers and software. We could no longer get parts for the 3090 (rollers, sensors, etc.). Department purchased DRG-2110. I am running the 2110 on Windows 10 with its native Capture software with no problems. Best, WILL PINES, Disability Specialist Accessible Technology Specialist Student Disability Resource Center he/him/his University of California, Riverside 900 University Avenue 1228 Student Services Building Riverside, CA 92521 Phone: 951-827-3861 | Email: wilbert.pines@ucr.edu Schedule an Appointment SDRC Web | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter ?A mind stretched by new experiences will never go back to its original dimensions.? [UC Riverside Student Disability Resource Center logo] From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 8:52 AM To: Deborah Armstrong >; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Canon scanner question Scanner technology has come a long way, and some older Canon scanners (that are not horribly pricey) are working just fine with updated Windows version. I still use and absolutely swear by the Canon ImageFormula series of scanners. Sheet feed, have OCR built in, and run just seamlessly for me. These scanners are now 10 years old or so, but have survived every operating system upgrade I?ve gone through with them. I?m using a Canon DRM160. Those older Canon 5080s were so picky about operating systems and just did not upgrade well to new operating systems, but I?m here to tell you that Canon does indeed make scanners that will. Bonus: they have a smaller footprint so don?t take up hardly any room on my desk. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Health and Wellness Services T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image002.png@01DBB8F1.9AF26E90] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:46 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question [External email - use caution] The answer is probably no, but here?s the situation. A long time ago I had a Canon high speed scanner, DR 50 something. I think it was a DR5090, but I?m not entirely sure. When Windows 7 came out, there were no longer drivers that worked with it, though the scanner itself worked fine. So I convinced my department to spend another $7,000 on a DR 8090 scanner which is still working fine. But Windows 10 came out, again, no drivers supported it. So I hid my Windows 7 PC under my desk, even though we had strict rules to surplus all our old computers due to Windows 7 no longer being updated. Five years later, and if I still want a high-speed scanner that works with modern Windows 11, I?m going to have to beg again. And it is silly, because this scanner still works just fine. Also the college wants to avoid spending money it does not need to spend. So I continue to hide the PC controlling this scanner and wonder if anyone has a better solution. I did try running the scanners in a VM, both when Windows XP became deprecated and after that Windows 7, but the drivers would not communicate with the virtual machine. If anyone has had luck doing this, let me know. With such an expensive scanner, I?m disappointed that Canon has refused twice to keep its drivers updated for modern operating systems. I know it is in their best interest to sell new models, but they could have sold new drivers for a few bucks and kept cash flow going that way as well. I worry a little about continuing to run Windows 7 just so I can use this scanner, but I also don?t want to explain why I want a new one when this one works fine. --Debee _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu http://mailman22.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8101 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 10:45:29 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Xanth King via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:02 2025 Subject: [Athen] Canon scanner question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okay great! I've worked with that model. It's pretty good. We've been using a Canon DR X10c for over 10 years. The double sheet detection and driver software for color dropout and image adjustment is way better, but they're in the 10k+ range. They also weigh 87 pounds. Just something to consider if you do ever get your unit to upgrade. Lately we've been way down on scanning requests because we almost always get digital versions from the publishers, but it's nice to have a such a workhorse. I've only had to replace the rollers and pads and keep the glass clean. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help. *Xanth King* Accessible Formats Technology Specialist Pronouns: They/Them/Theirs Wheeler Hall, Basement Level, Room 22 On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 10:29?AM Deborah Armstrong < armstrongdeborah@fhda.edu> wrote: > This was very clear and the scanner model is correct, I was just working > remotely and couldn?t remember the exact model. > > > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Xanth King via athen-list > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:52 AM > *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Canon scanner question > > > > Hello, > > > > I have found that these older scanner series will work with older drivers > on newer machines, but the company doesn't maintain the 'driver signing' > which keeps them "secure". As far as I can tell, the protocols work exactly > the same despite the newer operating systems. > > > > However, when you install the Windows 7 driver, even if you confirm that > you are okay with the driver being unsigned, Windows 10/11 security will > not allow an installation. That is, it will behave as though the > installation worked, but nothing will happen. This is because you have to > turn off driver signature enforcement. > > > > This requires administrative access to your computer, so you will likely > need help from IT unless you have gotten admin privileges. > > > > If you do, you need to reboot into advanced startup (hold down shift when > you hit restart) > https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2294-boot-advanced-startup-options-windows-10-a.html > > and Disable driver signature enforcement > https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/156602-how-enable-disable-driver-signature-enforcement-windows-10-a.html > > (when is only temporary for the next time the computer goes into Windows.) > > > > Then you can install the Windows 7 driver from Canon's website. Run it as > administrator. If it doesn't work, try installing it in compatibility mode. > > > > Also, it could be a lack of google-fu, but I can't find a DR 8090 driver. > Presuming this is the 9080c, here is the page with the driver. You can > switch the operating system to Windows 7 and get it there. > > > > > https://www.usa.canon.com/support/p/imageformula-dr-9080c-color-production-scanner?srsltid=AfmBOooxHiaWvZTRtSQE6eMhTj_hgZKsDXoT7Bz2BBTosbXq4GtjPS51 > > > > > Hope this helps. If this was unclear, feel free to shoot me any questions. > > > > *Xanth King* > > Accessible Formats Technology Specialist > > Pronouns: They/Them/Theirs > > Wheeler Hall, Basement Level, Room 22 > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:06?AM Will Pines via athen-list < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote: > > I was using a 3090 with Windows 7/10 with a generic driver. I was able to > get Capture Perfect to work but with only Batch Scan and single page scan.. > none of the extended menus that worked with its original drivers and > software. We could no longer get parts for the 3090 (rollers, sensors, > etc.). > > Department purchased DRG-2110. I am running the 2110 on Windows 10 with > its native Capture software with no problems. > > > > Best, > > *WILL PINES*, *Disability Specialist* > > Accessible Technology Specialist > > Student Disability Resource Center > > *he/him/his* > > > > University of California, Riverside > > 900 University Avenue > > 1228 Student Services Building > > Riverside, CA 92521 > > Phone: 951-827-3861 | Email: wilbert.pines@ucr.edu > > > > Schedule an Appointment > > > > > SDRC Web > > | Facebook > > | Instagram > > | Twitter > > > > > ?A mind stretched by new experiences will never go back to its original > dimensions.? > > [image: UC Riverside Student Disability Resource Center logo] > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Susan Kelmer via athen-list > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 8:52 AM > *To:* Deborah Armstrong ; Access Technology > Higher Education Network > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Canon scanner question > > > > Scanner technology has come a long way, and some older Canon scanners > (that are not horribly pricey) are working just fine with updated Windows > version. > > > > I still use and absolutely swear by the Canon ImageFormula series of > scanners. Sheet feed, have OCR built in, and run just seamlessly for me. > These scanners are now 10 years old or so, but have survived every > operating system upgrade I?ve gone through with them. I?m using a Canon > DRM160. > > > > Those older Canon 5080s were so picky about operating systems and just did > not upgrade well to new operating systems, but I?m here to tell you that > Canon does indeed make scanners that will. Bonus: they have a smaller > footprint so don?t take up hardly any room on my desk. > > > > *Susan Kelmer * > > Alternate Format Production Program Manager > > Disability Services > > Health and Wellness Services > > *T* 303 735 4836 > > *www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices > > * > > > > > > > > *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this > message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please > notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Deborah Armstrong via athen-list > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 9:46 AM > *To:* 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> > *Subject:* [Athen] Canon scanner question > > > > [External email - use caution] > > > > The answer is probably no, but here?s the situation. A long time ago I had > a Canon high speed scanner, DR 50 something. I think it was a DR5090, but > I?m not entirely sure. When Windows 7 came out, there were no longer > drivers that worked with it, though the scanner itself worked fine. > > So I convinced my department to spend another $7,000 on a DR 8090 scanner > which is still working fine. > > But Windows 10 came out, again, no drivers supported it. > > So I hid my Windows 7 PC under my desk, even though we had strict rules to > surplus all our old computers due to Windows 7 no longer being updated. > > Five years later, and if I still want a high-speed scanner that works with > modern Windows 11, I?m going to have to beg again. And it is silly, because > this scanner still works just fine. Also the college wants to avoid > spending money it does not need to spend. > > So I continue to hide the PC controlling this scanner and wonder if anyone > has a better solution. > > I did try running the scanners in a VM, both when Windows XP became > deprecated and after that Windows 7, but the drivers would not communicate > with the virtual machine. If anyone has had luck doing this, let me know. > > With such an expensive scanner, I?m disappointed that Canon has refused > twice to keep its drivers updated for modern operating systems. I know it > is in their best interest to sell new models, but they could have sold new > drivers for a few bucks and kept cash flow going that way as well. > > I worry a little about continuing to run Windows 7 just so I can use this > scanner, but I also don?t want to explain why I want a new one when this > one works fine. > > > > --Debee > > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu > http://mailman22.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8101 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 11:49:39 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai Message-ID: Check out mathkicker.ai, wow. The math conversions are similar to mathpix output, but it does the whole document at once. Attached results of a chapter that I submitted through the service. Also does handwriting. #ShockedPikachu Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Population Ecology Chapter 4.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 2273011 bytes Desc: Population Ecology Chapter 4.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Population Ecology Chapter 4.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 3627040 bytes Desc: Population Ecology Chapter 4.pdf URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 12:01:15 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Sara Larkin via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have shared MathKicker.ai with others as well. Here is information about MathKicker that I often share. * MathKicker.ai link to webpage http://mathkicker.ai/ * Sign up for a free MathKicker.ai account by going to the site and clicking on TRY MATHKICKER. * You will receive an email that says "Click here..." with two different links. Save the pages as favorites! * Convert pdf/image file to .docx (results in Word file with Equation Editor math content) * Convert pdf/image file to HTML * Convert image to .docx from clipboard * Convert image/pdf to mathkicker editor * Information and Tutorial Video of MathKicker.ai (4 videos) [IESBVI Logo] Sara Larkin Statewide Math Consultant (319) 310-6070 3501 Harry Langdon Boulevard, Council Bluffs, IA 51503 https://www.iesbvi.org/ From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 1:50 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai Check out mathkicker.ai, wow. The math conversions are similar to mathpix output, but it does the whole document at once. Attached results of a chapter that I submitted through the service. Also does handwriting. #ShockedPikachu Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and intended solely for addressee. In addition, any student related information contained in this e-mail (including attachments) is protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1994. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any. This communication and any response to it may constitute a public record and, therefore, may be available upon request in accordance with Iowa public records law, Iowa Code Chapter 22. [8th2] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28769 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 12:37:32 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Joshua Hori via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there some setting to alter the conversion for HTML output? The webpages I export have equations inserted as images instead of mathjax or mathml. When reading with a screenreader, it just says ?image?. I don?t see any alt tags when I?m viewing the backend code. Joshua From: Sara Larkin Date: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 12:01?PM To: Joshua Hori , Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: RE: Mathkicker.ai I have shared MathKicker.ai with others as well. Here is information about MathKicker that I often share. * MathKicker.ai link to webpage http://mathkicker.ai/ * Sign up for a free MathKicker.ai account by going to the site and clicking on TRY MATHKICKER. * You will receive an email that says ?Click here...? with two different links. Save the pages as favorites! * Convert pdf/image file to .docx (results in Word file with Equation Editor math content) * Convert pdf/image file to HTML * Convert image to .docx from clipboard * Convert image/pdf to mathkicker editor * Information and Tutorial Video of MathKicker.ai (4 videos) [IESBVI Logo] Sara Larkin Statewide Math Consultant (319) 310-6070 3501 Harry Langdon Boulevard, Council Bluffs, IA 51503 https://www.iesbvi.org/ From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 1:50 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai Check out mathkicker.ai, wow. The math conversions are similar to mathpix output, but it does the whole document at once. Attached results of a chapter that I submitted through the service. Also does handwriting. #ShockedPikachu Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and intended solely for addressee. In addition, any student related information contained in this e-mail (including attachments) is protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1994. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any. This communication and any response to it may constitute a public record and, therefore, may be available upon request in accordance with Iowa public records law, Iowa Code Chapter 22. [8th2] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28769 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 12:44:35 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karthikeyan, Ramya via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found the attached ATHEN list conversation regarding accessibility testing for HTML versions of Mathkicker documents from March 2024. Seems that it is great for DOCX, but not for HTML or braille production workflow. Not sure if there have been progress. Testing out the handwriting capability. Ramya Karthikeyan Alternative Format Specialist UCLA Center for Accessible Education 310-825-1501 (CAE line) http://www.cae.ucla.edu/ ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 12:37 PM To: Sara Larkin ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai Is there some setting to alter the conversion for HTML output? The webpages I export have equations inserted as images instead of mathjax or mathml. When reading with a screenreader, it just says ?image?. I don?t see any alt tags when I?m viewing the backend code. Joshua From: Sara Larkin Date: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 12:01?PM To: Joshua Hori , Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: RE: Mathkicker.ai I have shared MathKicker.ai with others as well. Here is information about MathKicker that I often share. * MathKicker.ai link to webpage http://mathkicker.ai/ * Sign up for a free MathKicker.ai account by going to the site and clicking on TRY MATHKICKER. * You will receive an email that says ?Click here...? with two different links. Save the pages as favorites! * Convert pdf/image file to .docx (results in Word file with Equation Editor math content) * Convert pdf/image file to HTML * Convert image to .docx from clipboard * Convert image/pdf to mathkicker editor * Information and Tutorial Video of MathKicker.ai (4 videos) [IESBVI Logo] Sara Larkin Statewide Math Consultant (319) 310-6070 3501 Harry Langdon Boulevard, Council Bluffs, IA 51503 https://www.iesbvi.org/ From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 1:50 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai Check out mathkicker.ai, wow. The math conversions are similar to mathpix output, but it does the whole document at once. Attached results of a chapter that I submitted through the service. Also does handwriting. #ShockedPikachu Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and intended solely for addressee. In addition, any student related information contained in this e-mail (including attachments) is protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1994. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any. This communication and any response to it may constitute a public record and, therefore, may be available upon request in accordance with Iowa public records law, Iowa Code Chapter 22. [8th2] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28769 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mathkicker Accessibility Testing March 2024.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 285921 bytes Desc: Mathkicker Accessibility Testing March 2024.pdf URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Tue Apr 29 12:55:53 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Susan Kelmer via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My concern is that this is producing MS Equation Editor, which is still substandard to MathML/MathType equations. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Health and Wellness Services T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image002.png@01DBB90E.6B828C40] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Sara Larkin via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 1:01 PM To: Joshua Hori ; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai [External email - use caution] I have shared MathKicker.ai with others as well. Here is information about MathKicker that I often share. * MathKicker.ai link to webpage http://mathkicker.ai/ * Sign up for a free MathKicker.ai account by going to the site and clicking on TRY MATHKICKER. * You will receive an email that says "Click here..." with two different links. Save the pages as favorites! * Convert pdf/image file to .docx (results in Word file with Equation Editor math content) * Convert pdf/image file to HTML * Convert image to .docx from clipboard * Convert image/pdf to mathkicker editor * Information and Tutorial Video of MathKicker.ai (4 videos) [IESBVI Logo] Sara Larkin Statewide Math Consultant (319) 310-6070 3501 Harry Langdon Boulevard, Council Bluffs, IA 51503 https://www.iesbvi.org/ From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 1:50 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] Mathkicker.ai Check out mathkicker.ai, wow. The math conversions are similar to mathpix output, but it does the whole document at once. Attached results of a chapter that I submitted through the service. Also does handwriting. #ShockedPikachu Best, Joshua Hori Accessible Technology Coordinator Information Educational Technology Academic Technology Services 50 Hutchison Dr. Davis, CA 95616 530-752-2439 Schedule a meeting via Calendly NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and intended solely for addressee. In addition, any student related information contained in this e-mail (including attachments) is protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1994. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any. This communication and any response to it may constitute a public record and, therefore, may be available upon request in accordance with Iowa public records law, Iowa Code Chapter 22. [8th2] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28769 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 30 13:54:05 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Michael Cantino via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] MathKicker.ai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Regarding Word to braille production with MathKicker files, this has been working well for me. I haven't been using this heavily, but every time I've tested it over the last year or so, it's worked well. When I originally reviewed MathKicker in February of last year, the Word documents read great with JAWS in Word, but they were a mess when you brought the Word files into Duxbury. About a month or so after that, the Word files started translating really nicely in Duxbury. You still need to do some formatting to get the braille just right, but the Nemeth output looks good. I'd be curious to see how it handles really complex content. I still haven't had any luck reading their HTML files with a screen reader. I emailed them about that in September, but it looks like it still hasn't been resolved. Michael Cantino (he/him) BVIS Technology Specialist Northwest Regional Education Service District (503)614-1339 Check out the BVIS Tech website to find helpful resources! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athen-list at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 30 16:38:46 2025 From: athen-list at u.washington.edu (Karthikeyan, Ramya via athen-list) Date: Thu Jul 10 11:20:03 2025 Subject: [Athen] MathKicker.ai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Than you for the update! Best, Ramya Ramya Karthikeyan Alternative Format Specialist UCLA Center for Accessible Education 310-825-1501 (CAE line) http://www.cae.ucla.edu/ ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Michael Cantino via athen-list Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2025 1:54 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu ; athen-list-request@mailman22.u.washington.edu Subject: Re: [Athen] MathKicker.ai Regarding Word to braille production with MathKicker files, this has been working well for me. I haven't been using this heavily, but every time I've tested it over the last year or so, it's worked well. When I originally reviewed MathKicker in February of last year, the Word documents read great with JAWS in Word, but they were a mess when you brought the Word files into Duxbury. About a month or so after that, the Word files started translating really nicely in Duxbury. You still need to do some formatting to get the braille just right, but the Nemeth output looks good. I'd be curious to see how it handles really complex content. I still haven't had any luck reading their HTML files with a screen reader. I emailed them about that in September, but it looks like it still hasn't been resolved. Michael Cantino (he/him) BVIS Technology Specialist Northwest Regional Education Service District (503)614-1339 Check out the BVIS Tech website to find helpful resources! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: