[Athen] Review a document?

[Susan Kelmer via athen-list]

We have created a lot of math over the years at the University of Colorado using MathType and Word.  While Microsoft Equation editor has gotten better, it is not the solution I choose to use, for the very reasons being pointed out in this email chain.  Both Jaws and NVDA can read MathType in Word files, as well, which is relatively recent (last five years or so).  But MS Equation Editor still lacks the appropriate formatting, in my opinion, and should not be used to create accessible math.

MathType in Microsoft Word means you can output a file to several other formats, including our current standard output, which is html with MathJax.  You can also output to ePub3, Nemeth Braille (using Duxbury) and LaTex.

In all these years, with all the various novel tools being introduced, I’ve yet to find a better way to produce accessible math content than just manually working through MathType in Word to get a file that is ready to be output into whatever other format is required with a just a few clicks.

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
Health and Wellness Services
T 303 735 4836
www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices<http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices>


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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of via athen-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 6:59 PM
To: 'Joshua Hori' <jhori at ucdavis.edu>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu>; 'Wallace, Sagan' <Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Review a document?

[External email - use caution]

Hi,

Interesting!!! Do you have the MathCAAT Add-on installed?

I find that MathML is being read perfectly. I also find math characters encoded as MathML is read correctly. When a character is encoded with the Unicode character, e.g. ¼ it is also read correctly.

This Unicode encoding is independent of MathML.

Best
George


From: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu<mailto:jhori at ucdavis.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 5:19 PM
To: kerscher at montana.com<mailto:kerscher at montana.com>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>; 'Wallace, Sagan' <Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu<mailto:Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Review a document?

Hello George,

You bring up a great point! I am aware of the issues with VoiceOver and math but I’m having a better time with VoiceOver than NVDA.

NVDA is silent on math equations, but math characters not within an equation are reading fine.

Best,

Joshua Hori
Accessible Technology Coordinator
Information Educational Technology
Academic Technology Services
50 Hutchison Dr.
Davis, CA 95616
530-752-2439
Schedule a meeting via Calendly<https://calendly.com/d/ytt-hsj-vbn>





From: kerscher at montana.com<mailto:kerscher at montana.com> <kerscher at montana.com<mailto:kerscher at montana.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 2:51 PM
To: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu<mailto:jhori at ucdavis.edu>>, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>, 'Wallace, Sagan' <Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu<mailto:Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu>>
Subject: RE: [Athen] Review a document?
Hello,

Voiceover has known issues with math.  I would suggest testing  with NVDA or Jaws with MathCAT. You may find you do not then need MathJax.

Best
George

From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via athen-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 3:25 PM
To: Wallace, Sagan <Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu<mailto:Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu>>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Review a document?

Hello Sagan,

I would suggest using Mathjax and LaTeX<https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/mathjax-basic-tutorial-and-quick-reference> instead of the MicroSoft Equation Editor. I’ve found an equation that isn’t reading properly. On page 3, second paragraph, there is an XN which isn’t reading aloud properly, but the next equation Xi does read correctly. When using mathjax for the first time, you will need to edit the equation configuration to make the math viewable. Right click (Shift+F10) on the equation, choose math renderer, and switch from SVG (inaccessible) to HTML+CSS (accessible).

You will need to add a Mathjax redirect in the HTML headers, but then you could type out all equations in LaTeX (using Mathpix), and wrap the LaTeX with “$$<LaTeX>$$” for display math and “/$<LaTeX>$/” for inline math.

Have you tried mathkicker.ai for math conversions? It’s really good.

The ePub with the footnotes at the end of the textbook was nice and didn’t interfere with reading. The typed document had lots of acronyms, but was understandable.

Only tested with VoiceOver.

Best,

Joshua Hori
Accessible Technology Coordinator
Information Educational Technology
Academic Technology Services
50 Hutchison Dr.
Davis, CA 95616
530-752-2439
Schedule a meeting via Calendly<https://calendly.com/d/ytt-hsj-vbn>



From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu>> on behalf of Wallace, Sagan via athen-list <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 11:39 AM
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu> <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] Review a document?
Hello all,

This is a big ask, so I'm sending this out to a few lists. Would anyone who is an experienced screen reader be willing to review one of the documents linked below, and give feedback on how effectively they were remediated? If you were a visually-impaired researcher using our archives and downloaded this material, would you be satisfied? Frustrated?

Background: I am working on remediating our library archives for screen reader accessibility. These are theses and dissertations, most of which are STEM-heavy. All of our documents are PDF scans and we are converting them to HTML or EPUB. I am finding it's hard to make some remediation decisions because we are remediating to have these available for any researcher who encounters them, rather than being able to tailor them to an individual reader's needs. I'm confident in our ability to do a basic correction, but I want these documents to be actually pleasant for our future reader to use. Hopefully I'll be able to conduct an actual UX test with our patrons, but until then I'd love some general feedback.

Each folder has the original PDF, and our output file:


  *   Example of a math-heavy PDF converted to HTML<https://oregonstate.box.com/s/ys5o4xtdmwlwkkejej9rvwyi06he1h66>

     *   Math was made using the Word equation editor. I'm particularly curious how equation 104 on page 77 is, since that was made using MathPix.

  *   Document with lots of footnotes<https://oregonstate.box.com/s/67packz54fb96vnxwgp3h07lon1fdxck>, converted to EPUB

     *   In particular, how is the navigation back and forth between the end notes and the main text?

  *   PDF of a poetry book<https://oregonstate.box.com/s/6u0po6y3qmtcyc4co3zjtxobvq1cjgle>, converted to EPUB

     *   I haven't been able to figure out how to maintain the formatting and page breaks, but I don't think keeping it as PDF is the answer.

  *   Scan of a typewritten document from 1874<https://oregonstate.box.com/s/2uhr3tul3p9ibxnhz1xflsga6gqokzlm>, converted to EPUB

     *   In this one I'm trying to balance maintaining the original formatting, while making the difficult-to-read text audible. We have a lot of documents written in cursive that will need to be corrected.

Thank you for any support, and I hope you have a wonderful week!

Best,


Sagan Wallace
they/them
Library Accessibility Manager
Oregon State University Libraries & Press


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