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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Philip is correct in that using transformers like ChatGPT may introduce incorrect responses, especially since it’s been fed decades old data, but I would like to point out that AI agents do not have this issue.
With AI agents, I could give it highly detailed instructions and feed it data that will focus its suggestions, but it’s all stuck within a chat window and I would still need to perform the work.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Transformers are the ADHD models of AI. They’ve been fed too much data and sometimes give incorrect responses that were relevant 5 years ago. AI Agents are the ADD/Autistic models of AI. They hyperfocus on
subjects. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Academic Technology Services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Top Tech Tidbits via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 12:06</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>'Steve Green' <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>, 'Philip Kiff' <phil@d4k.ca>, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Regarding output (or in this case, input) from ChatGPT, I deeply and wholeheartedly disagree with your assessments that AI cannot provide current, focused advice from experts like yourselves,
especially when the archives for this list, and many others like it, are open, available and have very likely been indexed by all of the large LLMS many times over. Why would you not want to consider these additional insights? Insights that have already proven
valuable to several readers of this list on several different occasions. Limiting the flow of possible information does not seem like a wise academic decision in my experience. But, with that said, this is not my list, and I very much want to respect the wishes
of the people who use it. Therefore, I will refrain from providing any information generated by artificial intelligence going forward.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Aaron Di Blasi,
</span></b><a href="https://www.pmi.org/"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">PMP</span></b></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:blue"> </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/aarondiblasi/"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="250" height="250" style="width:2.6041in;height:2.6041in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01DBAEE0.BE195480" alt="Aaron Di Blasi, Sr. Project Management Professional, Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd., Publisher, Top Tech Tidbits, Publisher, Access Information News stands smiling, arms crossed, in a suit and tie."></span></b></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">“The greatest barrier to accessibility is indifference.”</span></i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">💡</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">PR Director (2024-Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Access Technology's Digital Newswire</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://at-newswire.com"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://at-newswire.com</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Publisher (2024-Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">AI-Weekly</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">The Week's News in Artificial Intelligence</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://ai-weekly.ai/"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://ai-weekly.ai</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Publisher (2022-Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Access Information News
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">The Week's News in Access Information</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://accessinformationnews.com"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://accessinformationnews.com</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Publisher (2020-Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Top Tech Tidbits</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">The Week's News in Access Technology</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">🌐</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Sr. Project Management Professional (2006-Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Mind Vault Solutions, Ltd.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://mvsltd.com/"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">🌐</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Certified:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Digital Marketing Associate,
</span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://mvsltd.com/news/aaron-di-blasi-pmp-mind-vault-solutions-ltd-awarded-digital-marketing-associate-certification-by-meta/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Meta
Certified</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black"> (2022 - Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Social Marketing Professional,
</span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://mvsltd.com/news/aaron-di-blasi-pmp-mind-vault-solutions-ltd-awarded-social-media-marketing-certification-by-hootsuite-world-leader-in-social-media-marketing-solutions/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Hootsuite
Certified</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black"> (2020 - Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Email Marketing Professional,
</span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://mvsltd.com/news/aaron-di-blasi-pmp-mind-vault-solutions-ltd-named-a-constant-contact-certified-solution-provider/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Constant
Contact Certified</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black"> (2019 - Present)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Specializing in:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Digital Strategy and Content Marketing</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Social Media Advertising</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Online Fundraising</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.8pt;background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.ada.gov/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">ADA</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">, </span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">WCAG</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:blue"> </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">and </span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.justice.gov/crt/section-508-home-page-1" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Section
508 Compliance</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Website:
</span></b><a href="https://mvsltd.com"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">🌐</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Email:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="mailto:ad@mvsltd.com"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">ad@mvsltd.com</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">📧</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Toll Free:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="tel:+18555786660"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">+1 (855) 578-6660</span></a><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">📱️</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Schedule A Meeting:
</span></b><a href="https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://calendly.com/aarondiblasi</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">News:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/news"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/news</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Services:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/services"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/services</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Testimonials:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/testimonials"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/testimonials</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Facebook:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/facebook"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/facebook</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">X (Formerly Twitter):</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/x"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/x</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">LinkedIn:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/linkedin"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/linkedin</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Instagram:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/instagram"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/instagram</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">YouTube:</span></b><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/youtube"><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/youtube</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">Google:</span></b><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">
</span><a href="https://mvsltd.com/google"><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto">https://mvsltd.com/google</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"><br>
<b>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:</b> This e-mail and attachments, if any, may contain confidential information, which is privileged and protected from disclosure by Federal and State confidentiality laws, rules, and regulations. This e-mail and attachments, if any,
are intended for the designated addressee only. If you are not the designated addressee, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, may be unlawful and may subject you to legal consequences.
If you have received this e-mail and attachments in error, please delete the e-mail and its attachments from your computer.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 16, 2025 11:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Philip Kiff <phil@d4k.ca>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Eckelberry, Robin <Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net>; 'Hayman, Douglass' <dhayman@olympic.edu>; enews@toptechtidbits.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">We don’t usually get involved with the creation of source documents, but following the earlier posts I looked at the InDesign files for some projects. The contents of the Layers panels made no
sense. Some documents had all the content on one layer. Other documents didn’t have any content in the Layers panel, while in others only part of the content was in the Layers panel. Can anyone explain this? Do you need to add content to the Layers panel
or should it be automatic?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">I totally agree with Philip’s comments regarding ChatGPT.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Steve Green</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Managing Director</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Test Partners Ltd</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;font-size:pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Philip Kiff <</span><a href="mailto:phil@d4k.ca"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">phil@d4k.ca</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 16 April 2025 15:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Eckelberry, Robin <</span><a href="mailto:Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>;
Steve Green <</span><a href="mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">steve.green@testpartners.co.uk</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>;
'Hayman, Douglass' <</span><a href="mailto:dhayman@olympic.edu"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">dhayman@olympic.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>;
</span><a href="mailto:enews@toptechtidbits.com"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">enews@toptechtidbits.com</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Folks who were discussing how to configure Reading Order (not tag order) in InDesign last week may want to check out a new InDesign script provided (for free!) by Chad Chelius and Keith Gilbert.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">The script is intended to automate the process of adding everything in your Layers panel to your Articles panel in the correct order - so you don't have to repeat the process of ordering your content first for tag order and then re-doing
it again for reading order. More detail and a link to the download is available in Chad's post "Setting the Order for PDF Files in InDesign" posted to LinkedIn on March 26, 2025:
<br>
</span><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/"><span lang="EN-GB">https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/</span></a></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of the mailing list. In this
case, while some folks found ChatGPT content to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original question. Besides
which, ChatGPT is just going to regurgitate what it finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Phil. <br>
<br>
Philip Kiff <br>
D4K Communications</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">On 2025-04-07 5:51 p.m., Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list wrote:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what
will be read last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thanks again!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="0" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Top Tech
Tidbits<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">[snip] </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list
</span><a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<b><span lang="EN-GB">On Behalf Of </span></b><span lang="EN-GB">Steve Green via athen-list<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hayman, Douglass </span></span><a href="mailto:dhayman@olympic.edu"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><dhayman@olympic.edu></span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">;
Access Technology Higher Education Network </span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><athen-list@u.washington.edu></span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">;
Eckelberry, Robin </span><a href="mailto:Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net></span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)</span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following:</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using
the following steps on each object in turn:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level2 lfo6"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Select the object.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level2 lfo6"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Press Ctrl+X to delete it.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level2 lfo6"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level2 lfo6"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Reposition it if necessary.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level2 lfo6"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">However, this may break the order in the Articles panel.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Alternatively, you can use Acrobat’s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it’s faster and less error-prone than moving
individual lines.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Steve Green</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Managing Director</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Test Partners Ltd</span></p>
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