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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We don’t usually get involved with the creation of source documents, but following the earlier posts I looked at the InDesign files for some projects. The contents of the Layers panels made no sense.
Some documents had all the content on one layer. Other documents didn’t have any content in the Layers panel, while in others only part of the content was in the Layers panel. Can anyone explain this? Do you need to add content to the Layers panel or should
it be automatic?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I totally agree with Philip’s comments regarding ChatGPT.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Steve Green<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Managing Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Test Partners Ltd</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Philip Kiff <phil@d4k.ca>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 16 April 2025 15:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Eckelberry, Robin <Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net>; Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; 'Hayman, Douglass' <dhayman@olympic.edu>; enews@toptechtidbits.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Folks who were discussing how to configure Reading Order (not tag order) in InDesign last week may want to check out a new InDesign script provided (for free!) by Chad Chelius and Keith Gilbert.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>The script is intended to automate the process of adding everything in your Layers panel to your Articles panel in the correct order - so you don't have to repeat the process of ordering your content first for tag order and then re-doing it again for reading
order. More detail and a link to the download is available in Chad's post "Setting the Order for PDF Files in InDesign" posted to LinkedIn on March 26, 2025:
<br>
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/">https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/setting-order-pdf-files-indesign-chad-chelius-ads-d1tae/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of folks plugging questions into ChatGPT and cutting and pasting the response into mailing lists like this one. I think it generally degrades the value and accuracy of the mailing list. In this case, while some folks
found ChatGPT content to be useful, I personally thought that ChatGPT's response failed to distinguish clearly between "tag order" and "reading order" and therefore missed one of the crucial components of the original question. Besides which, ChatGPT is just
going to regurgitate what it finds elsewhere, rather than providing current, focused advice from experts or experience, which is what I rely on this list and the WebAIM list for. Just my 2 cents.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Phil. <br>
<br>
Philip Kiff <br>
D4K Communications<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2025-04-07 5:51 p.m., Eckelberry, Robin via athen-list wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hi Doug, Steve, and Aaron!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thank you for all of your help. I tested some more on my own and also reached out via WebAIM. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">What I found and trialed echoed the Chat GPT note.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">To be able to have the reading order correct in Acrobat, you have to adjust the order of the Layers in InDesign. The last layer is what will be read first, and the first layer is what will be read
last. So yes, ordering from bottom to top in InDesign is what worked for a correct Order panel for me in Acrobat.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">I'm glad that process has gotten better since 2021!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thanks again!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">P.S. Aaron I owe you some Google Workspace findings, too. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Top Tech Tidbits<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Steve Green'; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'; 'Hayman, Douglass'; Eckelberry, Robin<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">[snip] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Roboto"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list
<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"><athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Green via athen-list<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 3, 2025 12:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hayman, Douglass <a href="mailto:dhayman@olympic.edu"><dhayman@olympic.edu></a>; Access Technology Higher Education Network
<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><athen-list@u.washington.edu></a>; Eckelberry, Robin
<a href="mailto:Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net"><Robin.Eckelberry@nelnet.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] - InDesign and Reading Order (not tag order)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In 2021, I wrote a short training course on using InDesign to create PDFs. At that time, I wrote the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">The reading order in the Content panel is set by the order in which objects are created.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">It cannot be changed except by deleting an object and adding it back in, in which case it becomes the last item in the reading order. This can easily be done using the following steps on each object in turn:<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">Select the object.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">Press Ctrl+X to delete it.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">Press Ctrl+V to paste it back in.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">Reposition it if necessary.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">However, this may break the order in the Articles panel.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It is possible that something has changed since then, but I doubt it. It if has, do let me know.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Since you would be deleting and re-adding complete text frames, this should be much faster than moving individual lines in Acrobat. Obviously, creating content in the correct order would be best, but this can be really difficult.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Alternatively, you can use Acrobat’s Reading Order Tool to group all the lines in each paragraph. You would still need to put the paragraphs in the right order in the Content panel, but again it’s faster and less error-prone than moving individual lines.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Steve Green<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Managing Director<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Test Partners Ltd<o:p></o:p></p>
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