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This is off the topic of the request for an accessible version, but it made me think of another question. For the first time, APA is putting out an electronic version of their manual that libraries can subscribe to and provide access to a whole campus. During
APA's uncaptioned <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJnYr98j70" data-outlook-id="4b83ba15-940d-43bc-8e1c-f78e2516b42f">
APA Style Manual Demo Webinar</a> about the new product, at minute 25:10, the first question from their viewers is about accessibility of the product. APA's response is that they’ve created the product with accessibility in mind but they are still working
on a VPAT. Does anyone know anything more about accessibility of this product? My university is starting to consider it, but we don’t have a trial yet.</div>
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Thanks!</div>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Adina Mulliken (she/her)</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Associate Professor, Librarian Silberman Social Work and Urban Public Health Library</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Hunter College, City University of New York</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">2180 3<sup>rd</sup> Ave. New York, NY</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Phone 212-396-7665</p>
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<b>From: </b>athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> on behalf of via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, July 10, 2025 at 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>athen-list@u.washington.edu <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject: </b>athen-list Digest, Vol 234, Issue 4<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual (via athen-list)<br>
2. Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(John Sellmeyer via athen-list)<br>
3. Re: [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(Mark Weiler via athen-list)<br>
4. Re: [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(Susan Kelmer via athen-list)<br>
5. Seeking Braille sources for developmentally delayed adults<br>
(Deborah Armstrong via athen-list)<br>
6. Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication<br>
Manual (ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list)<br>
7. Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(Susan Kelmer via athen-list)<br>
8. Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(Kamran Rasul via athen-list)<br>
9. Re: [EXT] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list)<br>
10. Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
(Susan Kelmer via athen-list)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 13:38:08 -0600<br>
From: via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: "'Ho, Joyce Y - \(joyceho\)'" <joyceho@arizona.edu>, "'Access<br>
Technology Higher Education Network'" <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID: <01a001dbf108$fffdd820$fff98860$@montana.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
Best<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf<br>
Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association,<br>
7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 20:13:31 +0000<br>
From: John Sellmeyer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: "Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)" <joyceho@arizona.edu>, Access Technology<br>
Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CO6PR20MB3618E9010B2A405F0590AAF9ED49A@CO6PR20MB3618.namprd20.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
It appears that this is on Bookshare.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
John Sellmeyer<br>
Accommodations Coordinator, Office of Accommodations and Accessibility<br>
Adjunt Instructor, Music Department<br>
Marist University<br>
3399 North Road, Poughkeepsie, NY 12601<br>
(845) 575-3274<br>
john.sellmeyer@marist.edu<mailto:john.sellmeyer@marist.edu><br>
Schedule an appointment with me!<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0581c432557b4c819f9c977ba6cd5fd0@marist.edu?anonymous&ep=plink__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnlkyIRWY$
><br>
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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 2:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
<br>
[EXTERNAL EMAIL]<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 21:04:27 +0000<br>
From: Mark Weiler via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: "kerscher@montana.com" <kerscher@montana.com>, Access Technology<br>
Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu>, "'Ho, Joyce Y<br>
- (joyceho)'" <joyceho@arizona.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication<br>
Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<YT1PR01MB266772CE8E464EB2073F6DF3D549A@YT1PR01MB2667.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links, and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my
observation on a spot check with JAWS.<br>
<br>
I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or
age ranges??. In the one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
<br>
* When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old, 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18 years<br>
old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
<br>
This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
[Described above.]<br>
<br>
This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA. Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
<br>
[Described above]<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of via athen-list<br>
Sent: July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
To: 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
Best<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
<br>
* ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 22:03:44 +0000<br>
From: Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: Mark Weiler <mweiler@wlu.ca>, Access Technology Higher Education<br>
Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication<br>
Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<SA3PR03MB7489B601F4F740EEB289B937FB49A@SA3PR03MB7489.namprd03.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an accessible file.<br>
<br>
I have been saying this for literally years. I?ve had discussions with Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always the same, ?we don?t really have anything to do with that, you will have to talk to someone else,? or some various
versions of ?this is what the publisher sent us.? Any of us who work in this field know that there are much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would just
give us their PDF files. At least everything starts out in the right place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of readers in just a few hours.<br>
<br>
Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses. It?s fine if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document it should have been when it was first
produced as ?born accessible? by Bookshare.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="fb0f2233-0924-4c40-b552-c3555105a78f">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01DBF0EB.0AB27550]<br>
<br>
Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.<br>
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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Mark Weiler via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM<br>
To: kerscher@montana.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links, and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my
observation on a spot check with JAWS.<br>
<br>
I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or
age ranges??. In the one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
<br>
* When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old, 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18 years<br>
old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
<br>
This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
[Described above.]<br>
<br>
This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA. Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
<br>
[Described above]<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of via athen-list<br>
Sent: July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
To: 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
Best<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
<br>
* ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 22:04:03 +0000<br>
From: Deborah Armstrong via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [Athen] Seeking Braille sources for developmentally delayed<br>
adults<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<BYAPR10MB33665BCFEEF088CFC1907071B149A@BYAPR10MB3366.namprd10.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Our community college runs a program called Hope for adults with developmental delays. Most of them read at around a third grade level.<br>
The program uses Macs and iPads with lots of online sources to help them improve reading, math, spelling and job readiness. The students also learn crafts, photography and dance. For example, they take many videos and make simple presentations. They do Word
Search puzzles and discuss current events.<br>
The program has now gotten several blind students and I've been asked to provide materials for them in Braille.<br>
As a Braille reader myself I do know about some resources. There is for example Seedlings Braille Books for Children, but they only serve children and not adults. There is Braille On Demand from NLS and I've been using my personal account to get free Braille
from them, but would like to find another resource.<br>
There are also plenty of resources I know vaguely about for K-12 pupils, but again, they get federal funding to serve kids and not grown-ups.<br>
The content the sighted students work with is highly visual, because it is not academic, so it's impractical to convert and emboss it, and anyway, it is mostly online. I've ended up inventing word search puzzles, but that's about it.<br>
I really know nothing about creating curriculum for developmentally delayed blind adults, and my supervisor reminds me that in alternate media, my job is to convert what students request. However in this situation, I only know they have determined these adults
have an average of a third grade reading level and they are demanding Braille. I finally managed to get a list of subjects they were interested in, and of course I sent the folks at Hope a whole list of resources they can purchase, such as books from National
Braille press. But since the college has me, an alternate media specialist, they are reluctant to purchase anything.<br>
I suppose I can get things from bookshare and convert them, but I have no idea what is going to work best for these students. I'd like to avoid wasting tons of paper and time on books they cannot read.<br>
The people administering the program know nothing about Braille and I'm still trying to determine if their students can read contracted Braille or it needs to be uncontracted. Everything I've produced so far is uncontracted and was apparently used and welcomed.<br>
I am far more comfortable serving print impaired students in need of academic materials and I really don't know what to do about Hope and the three blind students requesting Braille.<br>
Advice and resources would be appreciated.<br>
--Debee<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 22:28:32 -0400<br>
From: ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>, Access Technology Higher<br>
Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA<br>
Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CADVA7NEvYGDEEAHKavRRhL6zw9qyqoqb0on-zrcHfa1nqRa_4Q@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books<br>
on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's<br>
where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers<br>
directly) will provide you perfect accessible copies. Part of our job is<br>
update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students,<br>
though, bookshare is perfectly fine.<br>
<br>
*Elizabeth Killinger*<br>
*Associate Coordinator*<br>
<br>
*FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability ServicesFashion Institute of Technology*<br>
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570<br>
Phone: 212.217.4090<br>
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04?PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <<br>
athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable<br>
> quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and<br>
> a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an<br>
> accessible file.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I have been saying this for literally years. I?ve had discussions with<br>
> Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always<br>
> the same, ?we don?t really have anything to do with that, you will have to<br>
> talk to someone else,? or some various versions of ?this is what the<br>
> publisher sent us.? Any of us who work in this field know that there are<br>
> much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing<br>
> in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would<br>
> just give us their PDF files. At least everything starts out in the right<br>
> place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML<br>
> document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of<br>
> readers in just a few hours.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses. It?s fine<br>
> if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something<br>
> like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document<br>
> it should have been when it was first produced as ?born accessible? by<br>
> Bookshare.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Susan Kelmer *<br>
><br>
> Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
><br>
> Disability Services<br>
><br>
> Health and Wellness Services<br>
><br>
> *T* 303 735 4836<br>
><br>
> *https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$<br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$ > *<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this<br>
> message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please<br>
> notify the sender immediately and delete this message.*<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Mark Weiler via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM<br>
> *To:* kerscher@montana.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <<br>
> joyceho@arizona.edu><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [External email - use caution]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand<br>
> comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe<br>
> significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links,<br>
> and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my observation on a spot<br>
> check with JAWS.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one<br>
> through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from<br>
> Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that<br>
> starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges??. In the<br>
> one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice<br>
> how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> * When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old,<br>
> 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18<br>
> years<br>
><br>
> old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
><br>
> [image: Described above.]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA.<br>
> Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [image: Described above]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
> *To:* 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu>; 'Access Technology<br>
> Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
><br>
> Best<br>
><br>
> George<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
> *To:* athen-list@u.washington.edu<br>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> - Title: *Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association*,<br>
> 7th Edition<br>
> - Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
> - ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thank you!<br>
><br>
> Joyce<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Joyce Ho*<br>
><br>
> Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
><br>
> Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> * ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do<br>
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and<br>
> know the content is safe.<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu<br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mailman22.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbn9X6pX44$" data-outlook-id="6dfb06df-0fc4-425f-b0bc-4591657defd1">
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><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 13:28:41 +0000<br>
From: Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: ATHEN-list Mailing List <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<SA3PR03MB748914A2B3C718A7E5240B0EFB48A@SA3PR03MB7489.namprd03.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I have to remediate everything I get from Bookshare. That is not ?born accessible? in my mind. While it IS our job to provide the format we need for our students, we should have access to at least reasonable quality files from an organization that receives
millions of dollars in grants and other government funding. An organization that has convinced publishers that their files are universally usable by a wide swath of disability types. I hold their feet to the fire on this because someone has to. The lack
of quality of Bookshare files is embarrassing.<br>
<br>
There are missing elements, as Mark pointed out, and it makes it much more difficult to get the correct information to the student. Missing elements in nearly every Bookshare book I?ve ever downloaded include:<br>
<br>
<br>
* NO understandable heading structure. Anything that is marked as a heading is an H2, and rarely are they correct.<br>
* Missing chapter titles (especially true if the title is in a graphic/visual format).<br>
* Missing page numbers. How does an academic cite material without page numbers?<br>
* Asterisks or other characters used instead of bulleted lists; numbered lists as text rather than formatted as numbered lists.<br>
* Missing graphics/images/visual elements.<br>
* Graphics/images/visual elements without alt text or any type of description.<br>
* Unformatted tables, if they are included at all.<br>
* Useless indexes, tables of contents, and other reference materials as they are links but do not include page number information.<br>
* Copyright information either buried at the end of the document, or missing completely.<br>
<br>
If I had $5 for every time I had to locate a hard copy of a book to be able to fully remediate a Bookshare file, I?d be a millionaire. I would rather have a scanned image PDF from ANY source, than a Bookshare file. I can remediate an image-based PDF into a
fully accessible format a lot faster than I can ?fix? a poorly formatted Bookshare file (hours instead of days).<br>
<br>
Note the elements Mark pointed out as missing. This is a reference manual, it needs to be perfect, it needs to have ALL of its elements in place. How are we supposed to ?fix? that when they are missing from a ?born accessible? file that we are provided from
Bookshare? We have to get a hard copy, go through page by page, and fix everything. We don?t have time for that. I will stop complaining about Bookshare when they start doing their job, or at the very least, start providing us with the raw image scans (not
text scans) when we ask for it. That would save me thousands of hours each academic year.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="b76042ef-5eec-4ca6-8a99-0a6d637a2721">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01DBF166.D6AA8820]<br>
<br>
Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.<br>
<br>
From: ELIZABETH KILLINGER <elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu<mailto:elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:29 PM<br>
To: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers directly) will provide you perfect accessible
copies. Part of our job is update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students, though, bookshare is perfectly fine.<br>
<br>
Elizabeth Killinger<br>
Associate Coordinator<br>
FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services<br>
Fashion Institute of Technology<br>
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570<br>
Phone: 212.217.4090<br>
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://fitnyc.edu/fitable__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnHl2XW-k$ ><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04?PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>> wrote:<br>
I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an accessible file.<br>
<br>
I have been saying this for literally years. I?ve had discussions with Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always the same, ?we don?t really have anything to do with that, you will have to talk to someone else,? or some various
versions of ?this is what the publisher sent us.? Any of us who work in this field know that there are much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would just
give us their PDF files. At least everything starts out in the right place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of readers in just a few hours.<br>
<br>
Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses. It?s fine if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document it should have been when it was first
produced as ?born accessible? by Bookshare.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="3acf5478-3bc5-4be3-b07e-77b0c24cea5d">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01DBF166.D6AA8820]<br>
<br>
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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Mark Weiler via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM<br>
To: kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links, and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my
observation on a spot check with JAWS.<br>
<br>
I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or
age ranges??. In the one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
<br>
* When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old, 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18 years<br>
old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
<br>
This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
[Described above.]<br>
<br>
This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA. Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
<br>
[Described above]<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of via athen-list<br>
Sent: July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
To: 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
Best<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
<br>
* ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 13:37:15 +0000<br>
From: Kamran Rasul via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: 'Susan Kelmer' <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>, 'Access Technology<br>
Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CH0PR01MB7201AAD2CFCBB71E5B44530CF448A@CH0PR01MB7201.prod.exchangelabs.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On a different note, what is going with AccessText Network? They are not the same anymore; I cannot seem to rely on them as much anymore. I miss the old AccessText Network services ?<br>
<br>
Anyone having better luck using their services?<br>
<br>
[Johns Hopkins University logo]<br>
Kamran Rasul, MEd.<br>
Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS)<br>
Phone: 410-516-1167<br>
E-mail: krasul1@jhu.edu<<a href="mailto:krasul1@jhu.edu" data-outlook-id="f4eaee7f-2b7d-4866-a639-046528dda9dc">mailto:krasul1@jhu.edu</a>><br>
Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G<br>
3400 N. Charles Street<br>
Baltimore, MD 21218<br>
Schedule a meeting with Kamran<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/ATC2@live.johnshopkins.edu/bookings/__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnFY7BQrg$ ><br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via athen-list<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2025 9:29 AM<br>
To: ATHEN-list Mailing List <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
<br>
External Email - Use Caution<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I have to remediate everything I get from Bookshare. That is not ?born accessible? in my mind. While it IS our job to provide the format we need for our students, we should have access to at least reasonable quality files from an organization that receives
millions of dollars in grants and other government funding. An organization that has convinced publishers that their files are universally usable by a wide swath of disability types. I hold their feet to the fire on this because someone has to. The lack
of quality of Bookshare files is embarrassing.<br>
<br>
There are missing elements, as Mark pointed out, and it makes it much more difficult to get the correct information to the student. Missing elements in nearly every Bookshare book I?ve ever downloaded include:<br>
<br>
<br>
* NO understandable heading structure. Anything that is marked as a heading is an H2, and rarely are they correct.<br>
* Missing chapter titles (especially true if the title is in a graphic/visual format).<br>
* Missing page numbers. How does an academic cite material without page numbers?<br>
* Asterisks or other characters used instead of bulleted lists; numbered lists as text rather than formatted as numbered lists.<br>
* Missing graphics/images/visual elements.<br>
* Graphics/images/visual elements without alt text or any type of description.<br>
* Unformatted tables, if they are included at all.<br>
* Useless indexes, tables of contents, and other reference materials as they are links but do not include page number information.<br>
* Copyright information either buried at the end of the document, or missing completely.<br>
<br>
If I had $5 for every time I had to locate a hard copy of a book to be able to fully remediate a Bookshare file, I?d be a millionaire. I would rather have a scanned image PDF from ANY source, than a Bookshare file. I can remediate an image-based PDF into a
fully accessible format a lot faster than I can ?fix? a poorly formatted Bookshare file (hours instead of days).<br>
<br>
Note the elements Mark pointed out as missing. This is a reference manual, it needs to be perfect, it needs to have ALL of its elements in place. How are we supposed to ?fix? that when they are missing from a ?born accessible? file that we are provided from
Bookshare? We have to get a hard copy, go through page by page, and fix everything. We don?t have time for that. I will stop complaining about Bookshare when they start doing their job, or at the very least, start providing us with the raw image scans (not
text scans) when we ask for it. That would save me thousands of hours each academic year.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="9a314fdd-d3ac-482e-8004-55c3c0362b82">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
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From: ELIZABETH KILLINGER <elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu<mailto:elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:29 PM<br>
To: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers directly) will provide you perfect accessible
copies. Part of our job is update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students, though, bookshare is perfectly fine.<br>
<br>
Elizabeth Killinger<br>
Associate Coordinator<br>
FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services<br>
Fashion Institute of Technology<br>
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570<br>
Phone: 212.217.4090<br>
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://fitnyc.edu/fitable__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnHl2XW-k$ ><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04?PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>> wrote:<br>
I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an accessible file.<br>
<br>
I have been saying this for literally years. I?ve had discussions with Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always the same, ?we don?t really have anything to do with that, you will have to talk to someone else,? or some various
versions of ?this is what the publisher sent us.? Any of us who work in this field know that there are much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would just
give us their PDF files. At least everything starts out in the right place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of readers in just a few hours.<br>
<br>
Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses. It?s fine if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document it should have been when it was first
produced as ?born accessible? by Bookshare.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="037bfe28-c52f-436c-be1e-d37f8e164672">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
[cid:image005.png@01DBF17E.359CE690]<br>
<br>
Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Mark Weiler via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM<br>
To: kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links, and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my
observation on a spot check with JAWS.<br>
<br>
I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or
age ranges??. In the one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
<br>
* When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old, 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18 years<br>
old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
<br>
This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
[Described above.]<br>
<br>
This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA. Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
<br>
[Described above]<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of via athen-list<br>
Sent: July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
To: 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
Best<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
<br>
* ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 09:43:44 -0400<br>
From: ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: Kamran Rasul <krasul1@jhu.edu>, Access Technology Higher Education<br>
Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXT] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CADVA7NFTE41JMOw=PsPDoj+Fm+j0x9OR7O_hit89k8KDG=u=rw@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
They went offline and from my understanding their archive was not brought<br>
back when they went back online. They are also publisher run now...<br>
<br>
*Elizabeth Killinger*<br>
*Associate Coordinator*<br>
<br>
*FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability ServicesFashion Institute of Technology*<br>
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570<br>
Phone: 212.217.4090<br>
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 9:38?AM Kamran Rasul via athen-list <<br>
athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote:<br>
<br>
> On a different note, what is going with AccessText Network? They are not<br>
> the same anymore; I cannot seem to rely on them as much anymore. I miss the<br>
> old AccessText Network services ?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Anyone having better luck using their services?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [image: Johns Hopkins University logo]<br>
><br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.google.com/maps/search/3400*N.*Charles*Street**A0D*0A*Baltimore,*MD*21218?entry=gmail&source=g__;KysrKyUlKysr!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnTxXTHUc$
><br>
><br>
> Kamran Rasul, MEd.<br>
><br>
> Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS)<br>
><br>
> Phone: 410-516-1167<br>
><br>
> E-mail: krasul1@jhu.edu<br>
><br>
> Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G<br>
><br>
> 3400 N. Charles Street<br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.google.com/maps/search/3400*N.*Charles*Street**A0D*0A*Baltimore,*MD*21218?entry=gmail&source=g__;KysrKyUlKysr!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnTxXTHUc$
><br>
><br>
> Baltimore, MD 21218<br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.google.com/maps/search/3400*N.*Charles*Street**A0D*0A*Baltimore,*MD*21218?entry=gmail&source=g__;KysrKyUlKysr!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnTxXTHUc$
><br>
><br>
> Schedule a meeting with Kamran<br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/ATC2@live.johnshopkins.edu/bookings/__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnFY7BQrg$ ><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Susan Kelmer via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2025 9:29 AM<br>
> *To:* ATHEN-list Mailing List <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> * External Email - Use Caution *<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I have to remediate everything I get from Bookshare. That is not ?born<br>
> accessible? in my mind. While it IS our job to provide the format we need<br>
> for our students, we should have access to at least reasonable quality<br>
> files from an organization that receives millions of dollars in grants and<br>
> other government funding. An organization that has convinced publishers<br>
> that their files are universally usable by a wide swath of disability<br>
> types. I hold their feet to the fire on this because someone has to. The<br>
> lack of quality of Bookshare files is embarrassing.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> There are missing elements, as Mark pointed out, and it makes it much more<br>
> difficult to get the correct information to the student. Missing elements<br>
> in nearly every Bookshare book I?ve ever downloaded include:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> - NO understandable heading structure. Anything that is marked as a<br>
> heading is an H2, and rarely are they correct.<br>
> - Missing chapter titles (especially true if the title is in a<br>
> graphic/visual format).<br>
> - Missing page numbers. How does an academic cite material without<br>
> page numbers?<br>
> - Asterisks or other characters used instead of bulleted lists;<br>
> numbered lists as text rather than formatted as numbered lists.<br>
> - Missing graphics/images/visual elements.<br>
> - Graphics/images/visual elements without alt text or any type of<br>
> description.<br>
> - Unformatted tables, if they are included at all.<br>
> - Useless indexes, tables of contents, and other reference materials<br>
> as they are links but do not include page number information.<br>
> - Copyright information either buried at the end of the document, or<br>
> missing completely.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> If I had $5 for every time I had to locate a hard copy of a book to be<br>
> able to fully remediate a Bookshare file, I?d be a millionaire. I would<br>
> rather have a scanned image PDF from ANY source, than a Bookshare file. I<br>
> can remediate an image-based PDF into a fully accessible format a lot<br>
> faster than I can ?fix? a poorly formatted Bookshare file (hours instead of<br>
> days).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Note the elements Mark pointed out as missing. This is a reference<br>
> manual, it needs to be perfect, it needs to have ALL of its elements in<br>
> place. How are we supposed to ?fix? that when they are missing from a<br>
> ?born accessible? file that we are provided from Bookshare? We have to get<br>
> a hard copy, go through page by page, and fix everything. We don?t have<br>
> time for that. I will stop complaining about Bookshare when they start<br>
> doing their job, or at the very least, start providing us with the raw<br>
> image scans (not text scans) when we ask for it. That would save me<br>
> thousands of hours each academic year.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Susan Kelmer *<br>
><br>
> Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
><br>
> Disability Services<br>
><br>
> Health and Wellness Services<br>
><br>
> *T* 303 735 4836<br>
><br>
> *https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$<br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$ > *<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this<br>
> message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please<br>
> notify the sender immediately and delete this message.*<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* ELIZABETH KILLINGER <elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu><br>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:29 PM<br>
> *To:* Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>; Access Technology Higher<br>
> Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [EXT] Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA<br>
> Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [External email - use caution]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books<br>
> on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's<br>
> where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers<br>
> directly) will provide you perfect accessible copies. Part of our job is<br>
> update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students,<br>
> though, bookshare is perfectly fine.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Elizabeth Killinger*<br>
> *Associate Coordinator*<br>
><br>
> *FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services Fashion Institute of Technology*<br>
> David Dubinsky Student Center, A570<br>
><br>
> Phone: 212.217.4090<br>
> Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04?PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <<br>
> athen-list@u.washington.edu> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable<br>
> quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and<br>
> a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an<br>
> accessible file.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I have been saying this for literally years. I?ve had discussions with<br>
> Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always<br>
> the same, ?we don?t really have anything to do with that, you will have to<br>
> talk to someone else,? or some various versions of ?this is what the<br>
> publisher sent us.? Any of us who work in this field know that there are<br>
> much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing<br>
> in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would<br>
> just give us their PDF files. At least everything starts out in the right<br>
> place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML<br>
> document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of<br>
> readers in just a few hours.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses. It?s fine<br>
> if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something<br>
> like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document<br>
> it should have been when it was first produced as ?born accessible? by<br>
> Bookshare.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Susan Kelmer *<br>
><br>
> Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
><br>
> Disability Services<br>
><br>
> Health and Wellness Services<br>
><br>
> *T* 303 735 4836<br>
><br>
> *https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$<br>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$ > *<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this<br>
> message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please<br>
> notify the sender immediately and delete this message.*<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Mark Weiler via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM<br>
> *To:* kerscher@montana.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <<br>
> joyceho@arizona.edu><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [External email - use caution]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand<br>
> comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe<br>
> significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links,<br>
> and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my observation on a spot<br>
> check with JAWS.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one<br>
> through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from<br>
> Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that<br>
> starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges??. In the<br>
> one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice<br>
> how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> * When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old,<br>
> 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18<br>
> years<br>
><br>
> old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
><br>
> [image: Described above.]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA.<br>
> Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [image: Described above]<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
> *To:* 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu>; 'Access Technology<br>
> Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
><br>
> Best<br>
><br>
> George<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
> *To:* athen-list@u.washington.edu<br>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> - Title: *Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association*,<br>
> 7th Edition<br>
> - Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
> - ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thank you!<br>
><br>
> Joyce<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Joyce Ho*<br>
><br>
> Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
><br>
> Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> * ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do<br>
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and<br>
> know the content is safe.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> athen-list@mailman22.u.washington.edu<br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mailman22.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbn9X6pX44$" data-outlook-id="950c1e1c-3066-420a-a180-e466515c6318">
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Message: 10<br>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 13:46:36 +0000<br>
From: Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
To: Kamran Rasul <krasul1@jhu.edu>, ATHEN-list Mailing List<br>
<athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<SA3PR03MB7489368CDA2FAED3092EB89BFB48A@SA3PR03MB7489.namprd03.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The ATN that was run by Georgia Tech was shut down April 1 2024. The new iteration is up and live but you need to sign up for a new account. It is not yet the resource it was, but it is there, and I get books through them.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://accesstext.org/home__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnZXe9ORU$" data-outlook-id="e5daecd4-8b50-4181-b85d-3d32c11ceb6d">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://accesstext.org/home__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnZXe9ORU$</a><br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="69daa017-89f3-42fc-a36d-4b06c3692418">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
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From: Kamran Rasul <krasul1@jhu.edu><br>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2025 7:37 AM<br>
To: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: RE: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
On a different note, what is going with AccessText Network? They are not the same anymore; I cannot seem to rely on them as much anymore. I miss the old AccessText Network services ?<br>
<br>
Anyone having better luck using their services?<br>
<br>
[Johns Hopkins University logo]<br>
Kamran Rasul, MEd.<br>
Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS)<br>
Phone: 410-516-1167<br>
E-mail: krasul1@jhu.edu<<a href="mailto:krasul1@jhu.edu" data-outlook-id="6265cab8-dbcf-4212-9170-de083edfd272">mailto:krasul1@jhu.edu</a>><br>
Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G<br>
3400 N. Charles Street<br>
Baltimore, MD 21218<br>
Schedule a meeting with Kamran<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/ATC2@live.johnshopkins.edu/bookings/__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnFY7BQrg$ ><br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via athen-list<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2025 9:29 AM<br>
To: ATHEN-list Mailing List <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
<br>
External Email - Use Caution<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I have to remediate everything I get from Bookshare. That is not ?born accessible? in my mind. While it IS our job to provide the format we need for our students, we should have access to at least reasonable quality files from an organization that receives
millions of dollars in grants and other government funding. An organization that has convinced publishers that their files are universally usable by a wide swath of disability types. I hold their feet to the fire on this because someone has to. The lack
of quality of Bookshare files is embarrassing.<br>
<br>
There are missing elements, as Mark pointed out, and it makes it much more difficult to get the correct information to the student. Missing elements in nearly every Bookshare book I?ve ever downloaded include:<br>
<br>
<br>
* NO understandable heading structure. Anything that is marked as a heading is an H2, and rarely are they correct.<br>
* Missing chapter titles (especially true if the title is in a graphic/visual format).<br>
* Missing page numbers. How does an academic cite material without page numbers?<br>
* Asterisks or other characters used instead of bulleted lists; numbered lists as text rather than formatted as numbered lists.<br>
* Missing graphics/images/visual elements.<br>
* Graphics/images/visual elements without alt text or any type of description.<br>
* Unformatted tables, if they are included at all.<br>
* Useless indexes, tables of contents, and other reference materials as they are links but do not include page number information.<br>
* Copyright information either buried at the end of the document, or missing completely.<br>
<br>
If I had $5 for every time I had to locate a hard copy of a book to be able to fully remediate a Bookshare file, I?d be a millionaire. I would rather have a scanned image PDF from ANY source, than a Bookshare file. I can remediate an image-based PDF into a
fully accessible format a lot faster than I can ?fix? a poorly formatted Bookshare file (hours instead of days).<br>
<br>
Note the elements Mark pointed out as missing. This is a reference manual, it needs to be perfect, it needs to have ALL of its elements in place. How are we supposed to ?fix? that when they are missing from a ?born accessible? file that we are provided from
Bookshare? We have to get a hard copy, go through page by page, and fix everything. We don?t have time for that. I will stop complaining about Bookshare when they start doing their job, or at the very least, start providing us with the raw image scans (not
text scans) when we ask for it. That would save me thousands of hours each academic year.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="d6949cff-72c7-418e-a894-f79145d54a4b">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
From: ELIZABETH KILLINGER <elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu<mailto:elizabeth_killinger@fitnyc.edu>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:29 PM<br>
To: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu>>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers directly) will provide you perfect accessible
copies. Part of our job is update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students, though, bookshare is perfectly fine.<br>
<br>
Elizabeth Killinger<br>
Associate Coordinator<br>
FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services<br>
Fashion Institute of Technology<br>
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570<br>
Phone: 212.217.4090<br>
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://fitnyc.edu/fitable__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnHl2XW-k$ ><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04?PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>> wrote:<br>
I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an accessible file.<br>
<br>
I have been saying this for literally years. I?ve had discussions with Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always the same, ?we don?t really have anything to do with that, you will have to talk to someone else,? or some various
versions of ?this is what the publisher sent us.? Any of us who work in this field know that there are much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would just
give us their PDF files. At least everything starts out in the right place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of readers in just a few hours.<br>
<br>
Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses. It?s fine if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document it should have been when it was first
produced as ?born accessible? by Bookshare.<br>
<br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
Health and Wellness Services<br>
T 303 735 4836<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$" data-outlook-id="211dffd1-a010-4733-aa0e-71230ee0b4c1">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$</a> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices__;!!LAh5qUgpm5Y!GQXLE09nLtavm_kJM_4aDZeFCnA-hoVCTy6-tlqTfcGUWo0Z6aI5bU41eqoolOVoFN4KRCy_SDP8aruXkSKwESRPXNbnBZWGVlw$
><br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Mark Weiler via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM<br>
To: kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
[External email - use caution]<br>
<br>
When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe significant differences in quality. CELA has missing figures, no links, and lists that seem to use asterisks. I base my
observation on a spot check with JAWS.<br>
<br>
I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that starts with ?When writing about age, exact ages or
age ranges??. In the one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:<br>
<br>
* When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old, 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18 years<br>
old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).<br>
<br>
This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.<br>
[Described above.]<br>
<br>
This second image is from the same section in a EPUB directly from APA. Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.<br>
<br>
[Described above]<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of via athen-list<br>
Sent: July 9, 2025 3:38 PM<br>
To: 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho@arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho@arizona.edu>>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185<br>
Best<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM<br>
To: athen-list@u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual<br>
<br>
Hello!<br>
<br>
Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:<br>
<br>
<br>
* Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition<br>
* Publisher: American Psychological Association<br>
* ISBN: 978-1433832178<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
Joyce<br>
<br>
Joyce Ho<br>
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator<br>
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona<br>
<br>
<br>
* ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br>
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