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Hey Joshua,</div>
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<br>
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I randomly tested some of the Math equations including the matrix on page 77 with NVDA version 2023.3.3 with MathCat addon and it seemed to work for me..I haven't had a chance to update to the latest version yet, not sure if that makes a difference.. I must
say it did not work with NVDA 2024.4.2 on a different laptop which did not have the MathCat addon installed..maybe that is the issue..</div>
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<br>
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Best,</div>
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Ramya</div>
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<br>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><b>Ramya Karthikeyan</b></span></div>
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Alternative Format Specialist</div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">UCLA Center for Accessible Education</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">310-825-1501 (CAE line)</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9.75pt; color: black;"><a style="margin: 0px;" title="http://www.cae.ucla.edu/" href="http://www.cae.ucla.edu/">http://www.cae.ucla.edu/</a></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2025 4:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> kerscher@montana.com <kerscher@montana.com>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Wallace, Sagan' <Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Review a document?</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello George,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">You bring up a great point! I am aware of the issues with VoiceOver and math but I’m having a better time with VoiceOver than NVDA.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">NVDA is silent on math equations, but math characters not within an equation are reading fine.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best, </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joshua Hori</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Accessible Technology Coordinator</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Information Educational Technology</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Academic Technology Services</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">50 Hutchison Dr.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Davis, CA 95616</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">530-752-2439 </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://calendly.com/d/ytt-hsj-vbn"><span style="color:#0563C1">Schedule a meeting via Calendly</span></a></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">kerscher@montana.com <kerscher@montana.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 2:51</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Joshua Hori <jhori@ucdavis.edu>, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu>, 'Wallace, Sagan' <Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Athen] Review a document?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Voiceover has known issues with math. I would suggest testing with NVDA or Jaws with MathCAT. You may find you do not then need MathJax.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">George</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua Hori via athen-list<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2025 3:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Wallace, Sagan <Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Review a document?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello Sagan, </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I would suggest using </span>
<a href="https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/mathjax-basic-tutorial-and-quick-reference"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mathjax and LaTeX</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> instead of the MicroSoft Equation Editor. I’ve found an equation
that isn’t reading properly. On page 3, second paragraph, there is an X<sub>N</sub> which isn’t reading aloud properly, but the next equation X<sub>i
</sub>does read correctly. When using mathjax for the first time, you will need to edit the equation configuration to make the math viewable. Right click (Shift+F10) on the equation, choose math renderer, and switch from SVG (inaccessible) to HTML+CSS (accessible).
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">You will need to add a Mathjax redirect in the HTML headers, but then you could type out all equations in LaTeX (using Mathpix), and wrap the LaTeX with “$$<LaTeX>$$” for display math and “/$<LaTeX>$/” for
inline math. </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Have you tried mathkicker.ai for math conversions? It’s really good.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The ePub with the footnotes at the end of the textbook was nice and didn’t interfere with reading. The typed document had lots of acronyms, but was understandable.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Only tested with VoiceOver.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best, </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joshua Hori</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Accessible Technology Coordinator</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Information Educational Technology</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Academic Technology Services</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">50 Hutchison Dr.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Davis, CA 95616</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">530-752-2439 </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><a href="https://calendly.com/d/ytt-hsj-vbn"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#0563C1">Schedule a meeting via Calendly</span></a></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">>
on behalf of Wallace, Sagan via athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 11:39</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">AM<br>
<b>To: </b></span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Athen] Review a document?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">Hello all,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">This is a big ask, so I'm sending this out to a few lists. Would anyone who is an experienced screen reader be willing to review one of the documents linked below, and give feedback on how effectively
they were remediated? If you were a visually-impaired researcher using our archives and downloaded this material, would you be satisfied? Frustrated?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">Background: I am working on remediating our library archives for screen reader accessibility. These are theses and dissertations, most of which are STEM-heavy. All of our documents are PDF scans
and we are converting them to HTML or EPUB. I am finding it's hard to make some remediation decisions because we are remediating to have these available for any researcher who encounters them, rather than being able to tailor them to an individual reader's
needs. I'm confident in our ability to do a basic correction, but I want these documents to be actually pleasant for our future reader to use. Hopefully I'll be able to conduct an actual UX test with our patrons, but until then I'd love some general feedback.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">Each folder has the original PDF, and our output file:</span></p>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/ys5o4xtdmwlwkkejej9rvwyi06he1h66" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/ys5o4xtdmwlwkkejej9rvwyi06he1h66"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Example of a math-heavy PDF converted
to HTML</span></a></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Math was made using the Word equation editor. I'm particularly curious how equation 104 on page 77 is, since that was made using MathPix.</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/67packz54fb96vnxwgp3h07lon1fdxck" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/67packz54fb96vnxwgp3h07lon1fdxck"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Document with lots of footnotes</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">,
converted to EPUB</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In particular, how is the navigation back and forth between the end notes and the main text?</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/6u0po6y3qmtcyc4co3zjtxobvq1cjgle" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/6u0po6y3qmtcyc4co3zjtxobvq1cjgle"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">PDF of a poetry book</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">,
converted to EPUB</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I haven't been able to figure out how to maintain the formatting and page breaks, but I don't think keeping it as PDF is the answer.</span></li></ul>
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<ul type="disc" style="margin-top:0in">
<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/2uhr3tul3p9ibxnhz1xflsga6gqokzlm" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/2uhr3tul3p9ibxnhz1xflsga6gqokzlm"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Scan of a typewritten document from 1874</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">,
converted to EPUB</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In this one I'm trying to balance maintaining the original formatting, while making the difficult-to-read text audible. We have a lot of documents written in cursive that will need to
be corrected.</span></li></ul>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">Thank you for any support, and I hope you have a wonderful week!</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">Best,</span></p>
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<p class="x_elementtoproof"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sagan Wallace</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black; background:white">they/them</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black; background:white"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Library Accessibility Manager</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Oregon State University Libraries & Press</span></p>
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