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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sagan, and others,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have a question around the math ML. Do you notice the problem I do?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">First, I’m not an expert with advanced math or with interacting with math with a screen reader. So, I can only describe what I did and make observations and ask questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m using JAWS 2025.2506.170 with the latest Chrome. Here’s formula 7, as it is expressed visually. Notice the
</span><span lang="JA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif">∫</span><span lang="JA" style="font-size:11.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">symbol (pronounced “integral”:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><img width="705" height="210" style="width:7.3416in;height:2.1833in" id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image002.png@01DBFC24.706DAE20" alt="Formula 7 from the HTML document shared"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I can hear the content when using JAWS with speech. But I’m not sure what a complex math equation is supposed to sound like when spoken. Here’s a linear run through (down key) of the content as JAWS speech
history:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<h2><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:windowtext">SimpleSpeak, Terse<o:p></o:p></span></b></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">cap p sub n, of, open x comma, y, close equals rho raised to the n minus 1 power d z 1 d z 2 dot dot dot d z sub n mu, open x comma, z 1 close times mu, open, z 1, comma, z 2 close times dot dot dot mu open,
z sub n minus 1 end sub comma, y close MathContent ‑<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<h2><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:windowtext">SimpleSpeak, Medium<o:p></o:p></span></b></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">cap p sub n, of, open paren x comma, y, close paren is equal to rho raised to the n minus 1 power d z sub 1 d z sub 2 dot dot dot d z sub n mu, open paren, x comma, z sub 1 close paren times mu open paren,
z sub 1, comma, z sub 2 close paren times dot dot dot mu open paren, z sub n minus 1 end sub comma, y close paren MathContent ‑<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<h2><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:windowtext">SimpleSpeak, Verbose<o:p></o:p></span></b></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">cap p sub n, of, open paren x comma, y, close paren is equal to rho raised to the n minus 1 power d z sub 1 d z sub 2 dot dot dot d z sub n mu, open paren, x comma, z sub 1 close paren times mu open paren,
z sub 1, comma, z sub 2 close paren times dot dot dot mu open paren z sub n minus 1 end subscript comma, y close paren MathContent ‑<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<h2><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:windowtext">Summary:<o:p></o:p></span></b></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I see an integral sign in the browser’s visual equation but don’t see it in the JAWS speech output. I see “power” instead. Shouldn’t “integral” be spoken?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I then open it in Math Viewer, and step through parts of the equation, as shown in the image below. I definitely don’t see the integral signs in this representation!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><img width="1500" height="268" style="width:15.625in;height:2.7916in" id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image005.png@01DBFC24.706DAE20" alt="Described above"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">To check if JAWS or Chrome can’t read
</span><span lang="JA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Yu Gothic",sans-serif">∫</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">, I then went to the Freedom Scientific MathML
<a href="https://support.freedomscientific.com/content/html/jawshq/MathML-Samples.html">
sample page</a> and stepped through an example that has an integral (see the heading, Semantics)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Here’s what I hear when reading it straight through:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Simple Speak, verbose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“the <b><u>integral</u></b> from 1 to t of fraction, double-struck italic d x, over x, end fraction MathContent –“<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The image below is a screen shot of the Semantics formula from the Freedom Scientific MathML. The math viewer is open and shows the integral sign.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><img border="0" width="1121" height="297" style="width:11.675in;height:3.0916in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image007.png@01DBFC24.706DAE20" alt="Described above"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">So, Sagan: Do you notice the discrepancy that I do? Why does the Freedom Scientific page get its Integral sign rendered in both JAWS and the browser but the dissertation only renders it visually in the browser?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Karthikeyan, Ramya via athen-list<br>
<b>Sent:</b> July 23, 2025 7:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> kerscher@montana.com; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list@u.washington.edu>; 'Wallace, Sagan' <Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu>; Joshua Hori <jhori@ucdavis.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Review a document?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Hey Joshua,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I randomly tested some of the Math equations including the matrix on page 77 with NVDA version 2023.3.3 with MathCat addon and it seemed to work for me..I haven't had a chance to
update to the latest version yet, not sure if that makes a difference.. I must say it did not work with NVDA 2024.4.2 on a different laptop which did not have the MathCat addon installed..maybe that is the issue..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Ramya<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black;background:white">Ramya Karthikeyan</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Alternative Format Specialist</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:white">UCLA Center for Accessible Education</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:white">310-825-1501 (CAE line)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="elementtoproof" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.cae.ucla.edu/" title="http://www.cae.ucla.edu/"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">http://www.cae.ucla.edu/</span></a></span><span style="color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">>
on behalf of Joshua Hori via athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2025 4:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:kerscher@montana.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">kerscher@montana.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:kerscher@montana.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">kerscher@montana.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">>;
'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">>;
'Wallace, Sagan' <</span><a href="mailto:Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Review a document?</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello George,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">You bring up a great point! I am aware of the issues with VoiceOver and math but I’m having a better time with VoiceOver than NVDA.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">NVDA is silent on math equations, but math characters not within an equation are reading fine.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Best, </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joshua Hori</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Accessible Technology Coordinator</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Information Educational Technology</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Academic Technology Services</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">50 Hutchison Dr.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Davis, CA 95616</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">530-752-2439 </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><a href="https://calendly.com/d/ytt-hsj-vbn"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">Schedule a meeting via Calendly</span></a><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><a href="mailto:kerscher@montana.com"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">kerscher@montana.com</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:kerscher@montana.com"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">kerscher@montana.com</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 2:51</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Joshua Hori <</span><a href="mailto:jhori@ucdavis.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">jhori@ucdavis.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>, 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>,
'Wallace, Sagan' <</span><a href="mailto:Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Athen] Review a document?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Voiceover has known issues with math. I would suggest testing with NVDA or Jaws with MathCAT. You may find you do not then need MathJax.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Best</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">George</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua Hori via athen-list<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2025 3:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Wallace, Sagan <</span><a href="mailto:Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sagan.Wallace@oregonstate.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>;
Access Technology Higher Education Network <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Review a document?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello Sagan, </span>
<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I would suggest using
</span><a href="https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/mathjax-basic-tutorial-and-quick-reference"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Mathjax and LaTeX</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> instead of the MicroSoft Equation
Editor. I’ve found an equation that isn’t reading properly. On page 3, second paragraph, there is an X<sub>N</sub> which isn’t reading aloud properly, but the next equation X<sub>i
</sub>does read correctly. When using mathjax for the first time, you will need to edit the equation configuration to make the math viewable. Right click (Shift+F10) on the equation, choose math renderer, and switch from SVG (inaccessible) to HTML+CSS (accessible).
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">You will need to add a Mathjax redirect in the HTML headers, but then you could type out all equations in LaTeX (using Mathpix), and wrap the LaTeX with “$$<LaTeX>$$” for display math and “/$<LaTeX>$/”
for inline math. </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Have you tried mathkicker.ai for math conversions? It’s really good.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">The ePub with the footnotes at the end of the textbook was nice and didn’t interfere with reading. The typed document had lots of acronyms, but was understandable.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Only tested with VoiceOver.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Best, </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joshua Hori</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Accessible Technology Coordinator</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Information Educational Technology</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Academic Technology Services</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">50 Hutchison Dr.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Davis, CA 95616</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">530-752-2439 </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><a href="https://calendly.com/d/ytt-hsj-vbn"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">Schedule a meeting via Calendly</span></a><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list-bounces@mailman22.u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>
on behalf of Wallace, Sagan via athen-list <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 11:39</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">AM<br>
<b>To: </b></span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">athen-list@u.washington.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Athen] Review a document?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hello all,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">This is a big ask, so I'm sending this out to a few lists. Would anyone who is an experienced screen reader be willing to review one of the documents linked below, and give feedback
on how effectively they were remediated? If you were a visually-impaired researcher using our archives and downloaded this material, would you be satisfied? Frustrated?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Background: I am working on remediating our library archives for screen reader accessibility. These are theses and dissertations, most of which are STEM-heavy. All of our documents
are PDF scans and we are converting them to HTML or EPUB. I am finding it's hard to make some remediation decisions because we are remediating to have these available for any researcher who encounters them, rather than being able to tailor them to an individual
reader's needs. I'm confident in our ability to do a basic correction, but I want these documents to be actually pleasant for our future reader to use. Hopefully I'll be able to conduct an actual UX test with our patrons, but until then I'd love some general
feedback.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Each folder has the original PDF, and our output file:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/ys5o4xtdmwlwkkejej9rvwyi06he1h66" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/ys5o4xtdmwlwkkejej9rvwyi06he1h66"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Example
of a math-heavy PDF converted to HTML</span></a><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Math was made using the Word equation editor. I'm particularly curious how equation 104 on page 77 is, since that was made using MathPix.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/67packz54fb96vnxwgp3h07lon1fdxck" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/67packz54fb96vnxwgp3h07lon1fdxck"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Document
with lots of footnotes</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">, converted to EPUB</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l7 level2 lfo4"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">In particular, how is the navigation back and forth between the end notes and the main text?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/6u0po6y3qmtcyc4co3zjtxobvq1cjgle" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/6u0po6y3qmtcyc4co3zjtxobvq1cjgle"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">PDF
of a poetry book</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">, converted to EPUB</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I haven't been able to figure out how to maintain the formatting and page breaks, but I don't think keeping it as PDF is the answer.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo7"><a href="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/2uhr3tul3p9ibxnhz1xflsga6gqokzlm" title="https://oregonstate.box.com/s/2uhr3tul3p9ibxnhz1xflsga6gqokzlm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Scan
of a typewritten document from 1874</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">, converted to EPUB</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
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<li class="xmsonormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo8"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">In this one I'm trying to balance maintaining the original formatting, while making the difficult-to-read text audible. We have a lot of documents
written in cursive that will need to be corrected.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thank you for any support, and I hope you have a wonderful week!</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Best,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xelementtoproof"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sagan Wallace</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:white">they/them</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Library Accessibility Manager</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Oregon State University Libraries & Press</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xelementtoproof"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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