[Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual

[Kamran Rasul via athen-list]

On a different note, what is going with AccessText Network? They are not the same anymore; I cannot seem to rely on them as much anymore. I miss the old AccessText Network services ☹

Anyone having better luck using their services?

[Johns Hopkins University logo]
Kamran Rasul, MEd.
Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS)
Phone: 410-516-1167
E-mail: krasul1 at jhu.edu<mailto:krasul1 at jhu.edu>
Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G
3400 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218
Schedule a meeting with Kamran<https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/ATC2@live.johnshopkins.edu/bookings/>

From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via athen-list
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2025 9:29 AM
To: ATHEN-list Mailing List <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual


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I have to remediate everything I get from Bookshare.  That is not “born accessible” in my mind.  While it IS our job to provide the format we need for our students, we should have access to at least reasonable quality files from an organization that receives millions of dollars in grants and other government funding.  An organization that has convinced publishers that their files are universally usable by a wide swath of disability types.  I hold their feet to the fire on this because someone has to.  The lack of quality of Bookshare files is embarrassing.

There are missing elements, as Mark pointed out, and it makes it much more difficult to get the correct information to the student.  Missing elements in nearly every Bookshare book I’ve ever downloaded include:


  *   NO understandable heading structure.  Anything that is marked as a heading is an H2, and rarely are they correct.
  *   Missing chapter titles (especially true if the title is in a graphic/visual format).
  *   Missing page numbers.  How does an academic cite material without page numbers?
  *   Asterisks or other characters used instead of bulleted lists; numbered lists as text rather than formatted as numbered lists.
  *   Missing graphics/images/visual elements.
  *   Graphics/images/visual elements without alt text or any type of description.
  *   Unformatted tables, if they are included at all.
  *   Useless indexes, tables of contents, and other reference materials as they are links but do not include page number information.
  *   Copyright information either buried at the end of the document, or missing completely.

If I had $5 for every time I had to locate a hard copy of a book to be able to fully remediate a Bookshare file, I’d be a millionaire. I would rather have a scanned image PDF from ANY source, than a Bookshare file.  I can remediate an image-based PDF into a fully accessible format  a lot faster than I can “fix” a poorly formatted Bookshare file (hours instead of days).

Note the elements Mark pointed out as missing.  This is a reference manual, it needs to be perfect, it needs to have ALL of its elements in place.  How are we supposed to “fix” that when they are missing from a “born accessible” file that we are provided from Bookshare?  We have to get a hard copy, go through page by page, and fix everything.  We don’t have time for that.  I will stop complaining about Bookshare when they start doing their job, or at the very least, start providing us with the raw image scans (not text scans) when we ask for it.  That would save me thousands of hours each academic year.

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
Health and Wellness Services
T 303 735 4836
www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices<http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices>


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From: ELIZABETH KILLINGER <elizabeth_killinger at fitnyc.edu<mailto:elizabeth_killinger at fitnyc.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:29 PM
To: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual

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I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers directly) will provide you perfect accessible copies. Part of our job is update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students, though, bookshare is perfectly fine.

Elizabeth Killinger
Associate Coordinator
FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services
Fashion Institute of Technology
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570
Phone: 212.217.4090
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable<http://fitnyc.edu/fitable>

On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04 PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>> wrote:
I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an accessible file.

I have been saying this for literally years.  I’ve had discussions with Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always the same, “we don’t really have anything to do with that, you will have to talk to someone else,” or some various versions of “this is what the publisher sent us.”  Any of us who work in this field know that there are much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would just give us their PDF files.  At least everything starts out in the right place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of readers in just a few hours.

Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses.  It’s fine if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document it should have been when it was first produced as “born accessible” by Bookshare.

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
Health and Wellness Services
T 303 735 4836
www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices<http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices>


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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Mark Weiler via athen-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM
To: kerscher at montana.com<mailto:kerscher at montana.com>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho at arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho at arizona.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual

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When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe significant differences in quality.  CELA has missing figures, no links, and lists that seem to use asterisks.  I base my observation on a spot check with JAWS.

I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that starts with “When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges…”.  In the one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:

* When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old, 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18 years
old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).

This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.
[Described above.]

This second image is from the same section  in a EPUB directly from APA.  Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.

[Described above]

From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of via athen-list
Sent: July 9, 2025 3:38 PM
To: 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho at arizona.edu<mailto:joyceho at arizona.edu>>; 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual

Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185
Best
George


From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual

Hello!

Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:


  *   Title: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 7th Edition
  *   Publisher: American Psychological Association
  *   ISBN: 978-1433832178

Thank you!
Joyce

Joyce Ho
Accessible Content and Media Coordinator
Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona


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