[Athen] [EXT] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual

[ELIZABETH KILLINGER via athen-list]

They went offline and from my understanding their archive was not brought
back when they went back online. They are also publisher run now...

*Elizabeth Killinger*
*Associate Coordinator*

*FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability ServicesFashion Institute of Technology*
David Dubinsky Student Center, A570
Phone: 212.217.4090
Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable

On Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 9:38 AM Kamran Rasul via athen-list <
athen-list at u.washington.edu> wrote:


> On a different note, what is going with AccessText Network? They are not

> the same anymore; I cannot seem to rely on them as much anymore. I miss the

> old AccessText Network services ☹

>

>

>

> Anyone having better luck using their services?

>

>

>

> [image: Johns Hopkins University logo]

>

> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3400+N.+Charles+Street+%0D%0A+Baltimore,+MD+21218?entry=gmail&source=g>

>

> Kamran Rasul, MEd.

>

> Assistive Technology/Alternate Format Specialist (SDS)

>

> Phone: 410-516-1167

>

> E-mail: krasul1 at jhu.edu

>

> Garland Hall, 1st Floor, Office 135-G

>

> 3400 N. Charles Street

> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3400+N.+Charles+Street+%0D%0A+Baltimore,+MD+21218?entry=gmail&source=g>

>

> Baltimore, MD 21218

> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/3400+N.+Charles+Street+%0D%0A+Baltimore,+MD+21218?entry=gmail&source=g>

>

> Schedule a meeting with Kamran

> <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/ATC2@live.johnshopkins.edu/bookings/>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *Susan Kelmer via athen-list

> *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2025 9:29 AM

> *To:* ATHEN-list Mailing List <athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual

>

>

>

>

> *      External Email - Use Caution      *

>

>

>

>

>

> I have to remediate everything I get from Bookshare.  That is not “born

> accessible” in my mind.  While it IS our job to provide the format we need

> for our students, we should have access to at least reasonable quality

> files from an organization that receives millions of dollars in grants and

> other government funding.  An organization that has convinced publishers

> that their files are universally usable by a wide swath of disability

> types.  I hold their feet to the fire on this because someone has to.  The

> lack of quality of Bookshare files is embarrassing.

>

>

>

> There are missing elements, as Mark pointed out, and it makes it much more

> difficult to get the correct information to the student.  Missing elements

> in nearly every Bookshare book I’ve ever downloaded include:

>

>

>

>    - NO understandable heading structure.  Anything that is marked as a

>    heading is an H2, and rarely are they correct.

>    - Missing chapter titles (especially true if the title is in a

>    graphic/visual format).

>    - Missing page numbers.  How does an academic cite material without

>    page numbers?

>    - Asterisks or other characters used instead of bulleted lists;

>    numbered lists as text rather than formatted as numbered lists.

>    - Missing graphics/images/visual elements.

>    - Graphics/images/visual elements without alt text or any type of

>    description.

>    - Unformatted tables, if they are included at all.

>    - Useless indexes, tables of contents, and other reference materials

>    as they are links but do not include page number information.

>    - Copyright information either buried at the end of the document, or

>    missing completely.

>

>

>

> If I had $5 for every time I had to locate a hard copy of a book to be

> able to fully remediate a Bookshare file, I’d be a millionaire. I would

> rather have a scanned image PDF from ANY source, than a Bookshare file.  I

> can remediate an image-based PDF into a fully accessible format  a lot

> faster than I can “fix” a poorly formatted Bookshare file (hours instead of

> days).

>

>

>

> Note the elements Mark pointed out as missing.  This is a reference

> manual, it needs to be perfect, it needs to have ALL of its elements in

> place.  How are we supposed to “fix” that when they are missing from a

> “born accessible” file that we are provided from Bookshare?  We have to get

> a hard copy, go through page by page, and fix everything.  We don’t have

> time for that.  I will stop complaining about Bookshare when they start

> doing their job, or at the very least, start providing us with the raw

> image scans (not text scans) when we ask for it.  That would save me

> thousands of hours each academic year.

>

>

>

> *Susan Kelmer *

>

> Alternate Format Production Program Manager

>

> Disability Services

>

> Health and Wellness Services

>

> *T* 303 735 4836

>

> *www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices

> <http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices> *

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this

> message cannot be guaranteed. If you’ve received this email in error please

> notify the sender immediately and delete this message.*

>

>

>

> *From:* ELIZABETH KILLINGER <elizabeth_killinger at fitnyc.edu>

> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:29 PM

> *To:* Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>; Access Technology Higher

> Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [EXT] Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA

> Publication Manual

>

>

>

> [External email - use caution]

>

>

>

> I disagree... some books, some publishers are better than others for books

> on Bookshare... but some publishers directly upload to bookshare and that's

> where they send you if you direct request. No source (even publishers

> directly) will provide you perfect accessible copies. Part of our job is

> update them for the needs of our students. For a majority of students,

> though, bookshare is perfectly fine.

>

>

>

> *Elizabeth Killinger*

> *Associate Coordinator*

>

> *FIT-ABLE | Office of Disability Services Fashion Institute of Technology*

> David Dubinsky Student Center, A570

>

> Phone: 212.217.4090

> Website: fitnyc.edu/fitable

>

>

>

> On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 6:04 PM Susan Kelmer via athen-list <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu> wrote:

>

> I may sound like a broken record, but Bookshare files are of questionable

> quality in most circumstances, with a vast array of missing information and

> a lack of formatting that is normally expected as a standard in an

> accessible file.

>

>

>

> I have been saying this for literally years.  I’ve had discussions with

> Bookshare personnel in different areas of the organization and it is always

> the same, “we don’t really have anything to do with that, you will have to

> talk to someone else,” or some various versions of “this is what the

> publisher sent us.”  Any of us who work in this field know that there are

> much better quality materials from publishers directly than we are seeing

> in Bookshare versions, aka, it would be preferable if the publisher would

> just give us their PDF files.  At least everything starts out in the right

> place there. And from there, I can create a fully accessible Word or HTML

> document with all elements included, formatted properly for all types of

> readers in just a few hours.

>

>

>

> Bookshare files are woefully inadequate for most academic uses.  It’s fine

> if you just want to hear a popular novel or something, but for something

> like this, it needs a massive amount of remediation to become the document

> it should have been when it was first produced as “born accessible” by

> Bookshare.

>

>

>

> *Susan Kelmer *

>

> Alternate Format Production Program Manager

>

> Disability Services

>

> Health and Wellness Services

>

> *T* 303 735 4836

>

> *www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices

> <http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices> *

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this

> message cannot be guaranteed. If you’ve received this email in error please

> notify the sender immediately and delete this message.*

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *Mark Weiler via athen-list

> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 3:04 PM

> *To:* kerscher at montana.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu>; 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <

> joyceho at arizona.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Accessible APA Publication Manual

>

>

>

> [External email - use caution]

>

>

>

> When I compare the version available through CELA, which I understand

> comes through Bookshare, and the EPUB from APA directly, I observe

> significant differences in quality.  CELA has missing figures, no links,

> and lists that seem to use asterisks.  I base my observation on a spot

> check with JAWS.

>

>

>

> I wonder if the one through CELA is actually different than the one

> through Bookshare? George, can you confirm that in the version from

> Bookshare, before section 5.2, there is a properly bulleted list that

> starts with “When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges…”.  In the

> one through CELA, this is a clip of the speech history with JAWS. Notice

> how it incorrectly starts with an asterisk:

>

>

>

> * When writing about age, exact ages or age ranges (e.g., 15-18 years old,

> 65-80 years old) are more specific than broad categories (e.g., under 18

> years

>

> old, over 65 years old; see Section 5.3).

>

>

>

> This image shows the corresponding section in the EPUB from CELA.

>

> [image: Described above.]

>

>

>

> This second image is from the same section  in a EPUB directly from APA.

> Notice it uses a bullet and also has a hyperlink.

>

>

>

> [image: Described above]

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *via athen-list

> *Sent:* July 9, 2025 3:38 PM

> *To:* 'Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho)' <joyceho at arizona.edu>; 'Access Technology

> Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual

>

>

>

> Hello, It is in Bookshare, ISBN 9781433832185

>

> Best

>

> George

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *Ho, Joyce Y - (joyceho) via athen-list

> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 12:50 PM

> *To:* athen-list at u.washington.edu

> *Subject:* [Athen] Accessible APA Publication Manual

>

>

>

> Hello!

>

>

>

> Would anyone happen to have an accessible copy of the following book:

>

>

>

>    - Title: *Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association*,

>    7th Edition

>    - Publisher: American Psychological Association

>    - ISBN: 978-1433832178

>

>

>

> Thank you!

>

> Joyce

>

>

>

> *Joyce Ho*

>

> Accessible Content and Media Coordinator

>

> Disability Resource Center | The University of Arizona

>

>

>

>

>

> * ⚠ Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do

> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and

> know the content is safe.

>

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