[Athen] Review a document?

[Wallace, Sagan via athen-list]

Hi Kevin,

Thank you so much for bringing this up! I am absolutely planning on compensating any UX tester's time in some way. I don't think it's ethical otherwise. I'm still a long ways out from being able to move forward with testing, but I want to do it right. I like the idea of a tiered approach to testing, and I think Uber vouchers would be really valued by our students. I think this has opened up an idea for how I might be able to make testing possible more quickly.

And to all the folks who have offered feedback - thank you, this has been extremely helpful! I'm still sorting through the emails for specifics, but overall I'm seeing that math in particular is heavily dependent on what AT someone is  using, what browser, plugins, etc. I think this is particularly highlighting the downside of trying to make our archives "generically accessible" - that's simply not a thing and we can only ever get "close enough" and work with people individually for where there are gaps.

I'm a little discouraged that integrals aren't being read aloud correctly. I created those by manually entering them into the Word Equation Editor and matched the PDF as exactly as I could - for example, if the integral didn't have a sub/superscript, then I picked the integral that didn't have that added. I'm currently mystified but hopefully as I dig I'll figure out where I went wrong.

Thank you all again,


Sagan Wallace

they/them

________________________________
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Deborah Armstrong via athen-list <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2025 4:59 PM
To: Kevin Andrews <ka791 at georgetown.edu>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Review a document?


[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]

I would add that asking blind and visually impaired people to test is valuable work, but I personally think you ask for volunteers first, then pay those who contribute significantly. For every blind student I’ve had who knows how to use their access technology, there are ten who do not. I’m in a community college, so probably at a university you’d see users with greater A.T. skills.

And if your budget or circumstances don’t allow cash payments, consider amazon gift cards or some other compensation.

I have done a ton of testing for Google, Ebay, Facebook, Amazon and Meta because I live in Silicon Valley and am considered a valued tester. But I always get paid in Amazon, Target or Walmart cards, or free Uber rides, and never with cash. And these are big for-profit companies who you’d think would have resources to pay me real money. But I’m fine with all the other payment methods. Doesn’t require a W9! Silicon valley is pricey so those Uber vouchers are an especially nice payment!





From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman22.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Kevin Andrews via athen-list
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2025 4:50 PM
To: Wallace, Sagan <Sagan.Wallace at oregonstate.edu>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Review a document?



Hi Sagan,



Thanks for reaching out and for the care you're clearly putting into improving accessibility in your library archives. It’s heartening to see someone thinking not just about compliance, but about actual usability and experience for blind readers.



That said, I do want to gently flag that asking blind screen reader users to review multiple documents and provide UX feedback, without compensation, can feel like being asked to donate our expertise and lived experience. This is valuable labor, and when done well, it’s not just “feedback,” it’s user testing, consulting, and accessibility evaluation work.



If your institution is able to allocate funding or formalize this into a paid opportunity (or even a structured pilot with clear parameters), I imagine you'd get more consistent, thorough feedback, and it would set a strong precedent around valuing access labor.



Totally understand if you’re early in the process or navigating constraints, and I appreciate you opening the door. Just wanted to be candid about how this sort of request might land.



Wishing you all the best with the remediation work—this kind of deep accessibility work is sorely needed.



On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 2:38 PM Wallace, Sagan via athen-list <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>> wrote:

Hello all,



This is a big ask, so I'm sending this out to a few lists. Would anyone who is an experienced screen reader be willing to review one of the documents linked below, and give feedback on how effectively they were remediated? If you were a visually-impaired researcher using our archives and downloaded this material, would you be satisfied? Frustrated?



Background: I am working on remediating our library archives for screen reader accessibility. These are theses and dissertations, most of which are STEM-heavy. All of our documents are PDF scans and we are converting them to HTML or EPUB. I am finding it's hard to make some remediation decisions because we are remediating to have these available for any researcher who encounters them, rather than being able to tailor them to an individual reader's needs. I'm confident in our ability to do a basic correction, but I want these documents to be actually pleasant for our future reader to use. Hopefully I'll be able to conduct an actual UX test with our patrons, but until then I'd love some general feedback.



Each folder has the original PDF, and our output file:



  *   Example of a math-heavy PDF converted to HTML<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/oregonstate.box.com/s/ys5o4xtdmwlwkkejej9rvwyi06he1h66__;!!A-B3JKCz!EL1mkNTPQBDXzBmyXbaFrBzqe0pGgfaOVAt3X0Nv4KBwSED5Z4ZZbIjpRa7324eYRQw3spXwgldzzBda1VEoMvflXiyEMhNVh-4$>

     *   Math was made using the Word equation editor. I'm particularly curious how equation 104 on page 77 is, since that was made using MathPix.

  *   Document with lots of footnotes<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/oregonstate.box.com/s/67packz54fb96vnxwgp3h07lon1fdxck__;!!A-B3JKCz!EL1mkNTPQBDXzBmyXbaFrBzqe0pGgfaOVAt3X0Nv4KBwSED5Z4ZZbIjpRa7324eYRQw3spXwgldzzBda1VEoMvflXiyEXXCk0uE$>, converted to EPUB

     *   In particular, how is the navigation back and forth between the end notes and the main text?

  *   PDF of a poetry book<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/oregonstate.box.com/s/6u0po6y3qmtcyc4co3zjtxobvq1cjgle__;!!A-B3JKCz!EL1mkNTPQBDXzBmyXbaFrBzqe0pGgfaOVAt3X0Nv4KBwSED5Z4ZZbIjpRa7324eYRQw3spXwgldzzBda1VEoMvflXiyEeoQ8B3E$>, converted to EPUB

     *   I haven't been able to figure out how to maintain the formatting and page breaks, but I don't think keeping it as PDF is the answer.

  *   Scan of a typewritten document from 1874<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/oregonstate.box.com/s/2uhr3tul3p9ibxnhz1xflsga6gqokzlm__;!!A-B3JKCz!EL1mkNTPQBDXzBmyXbaFrBzqe0pGgfaOVAt3X0Nv4KBwSED5Z4ZZbIjpRa7324eYRQw3spXwgldzzBda1VEoMvflXiyEYxNX__Q$>, converted to EPUB

     *   In this one I'm trying to balance maintaining the original formatting, while making the difficult-to-read text audible. We have a lot of documents written in cursive that will need to be corrected.



Thank you for any support, and I hope you have a wonderful week!



Best,



Sagan Wallace

they/them

Library Accessibility Manager

Oregon State University Libraries & Press



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--

Best Regards,

Kevin Andrews

Electronic and Information Technology Accessibility Coordinator

University Information Services
Georgetown University
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